Definitions change and words can be reclaimed. If European Jews can claim it despite having no Semitic ancestry and not speaking a Semitic language until after Zionism, why can’t Semitic people who always spoke a Semitic language? Moreso if said Semitic people have been systematically massacred and oppressed by European LARPers who weaponized the term. You are just being antisemitic.
Err… has LARPer been reclaimed too? Must be, because I have no idea what you are talking about (which shouldn’t surprise anyone, since you make up your own definitions instead of bothering with actually making yourself clear).
Anyway, until “antisemitism” is actually reclaimed (and you’ll notice because dictionaries will start listing two meanings for it), it means one precise thing and, shall you want to use the term with a different meaning, you should at the very least note that for your readers. That’s language 101: words have a conventional meaning, thanks to which we can (hope to) understand each other.
I don’t even know why I’m still arguing with you… there are lots of people (mostly in the far-right) that, exactly like you are doing here, are adamant in thinking they are the depositaries of absolute truth despite any and all evidence, and arguing with them brings zero benefit to society.
Since I’ve written this, I guess I’ll post it (before blocking your account).
According to your link, Ashkenazi Jews are descended mostly from Europeans on the maternal line but from Near-Eastern, “Semitic” people on the paternal line. The term “Semitic” comes from the biblical Shem, the son of Noah. So if Semitic ancestry were a real thing, then it would refer to the male line, and Ashkenazi Jews would have it.
Past research found that 50 percent to 80 percent of DNA from the Ashkenazi Y chromosome, which is used to trace the male lineage, originated in the Near East, Richards said. […] Richards and his colleagues analyzed mitochondrial DNA, which is contained in the cytoplasm of the egg and passed down only from the mother […] All told, more than 80 percent of the maternal lineages of Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to Europe, with only a few lineages originating in the Near East. […] “The simplest explanation was that it was mainly women who converted and they married with men who’d come from the Near East,” Richards told LiveScience.
But of course, Shem wasn’t a real person and there is no such thing as “Semitic” ancestry. The term antisemitic is a fossil left by 19th-century European racial pseudoscience weaponized against Jews living in European countries. There’s no reason to apply it to a different group of people unless you actually believe that certain races were descended from the biblical Shem.
The same is true of the Semitic language family. The Afro-Asiatic language family used to be called “Hamito-Semitic” from the belief that Africans descended from the biblical Ham and Asians from Shem. Linguists have updated that name, but for now no term has dislodged “Semitic” as the name of a language family.
If you want to claim that the term “antisemitic” refers to the Semitic language family, then it’s a prejudice that doesn’t exist. There’s no one on Earth who hates Arabs and Jews because they speak Semitic languages but is fine with Iranians and Turks. Hatred of both Arabs and Jews is almost always based on race, religion, and politics, not technical classifications of language families. Yes, Elon Musk called Arabic “the language of the enemy,” but there’s no doubt that he’d say the same thing about Farsi, or any other language spoken by non-white Muslims.
And finally, while Jews in the diaspora stopped speaking Hebrew and Aramaic as vernacular languages, they have always prayed in Hebrew and taken Hebrew religious names. European Jewish vernacular languages like Yiddish and Ladino carry Hebrew and Aramaic influences. And of course, many Jews historically spoke Judeo-Arabic, which is obviously a Semitic language.
Zionists and Elon Musk are racist, Islamophobic imperialists. There are plenty of terms to criticize them that aren’t confusing and pseudoscientific.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all religions that originated among Semitic people. Hatred of the practitioners of any can be considered antisemitism.
However you want to define it, it is not exclusive to the practitioners of Judaism. The original definition that limited it to hatred of Jews is wrong and misleading.
The original Jews of ancient Palestine, the Akkadians, the Arameans, and the modern Arabs as well as some Ethiopians, to list a few, do in fact share an ancestry. More than ancestry they also share cultural continuity. Pre-Islamic Arabic poetry parallels Akkadian and Babylonian hymns, specially how the role of women and the words used echoes how Ishtar was portrayed in the hymns. Fun fact the Ethiopian script originated in the Arabian Peninsula and was used to write Arabic and other languages in the past, but I digress.
Even if Shem isn’t a real person. While languages moves faster than genetics, and language shifts and assimilations happened. Semitic people can be traced back to the original people who spoke Proto-Semitic. In fact Arabic preserves some features of Proto-Semitic that are lost in Hebrew.
There’s no one on Earth who hates Arabs and Jews because they speak Semitic languages
This is false. Arabs are hated for being Arab regardless of their religion or skin colour.
The term “Semitic” comes from the biblical Shem, the son of Noah. So if Semitic ancestry were a real thing, then it would refer to the male line, and Ashkenazi Jews would have it.
Judaism is passed maternally. Jews aren’t the only ones who believe in the story of Shem or trace themselves back to him. In fact both people trace themselves to a far more recent patriarch, Abraham.
Ashkenazi Jews aren’t the only people in Europe with Levantine ancestry. If you are going to claim that some Levantine ancestry 2000-3000 years ago means you are a Jew, then there’s a whole lot more Jews than just those who practice Judaism. Including everyone in Palestine more or less.
The term antisemitic is a fossil left by 19th-century European racial pseudoscience weaponized against Jews living in European countries.
Because some European did something bad, Arabs have to suffer. This does repeat itself.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all religions that originated among Semitic people. Hatred of the practitioners of any can be considered antisemitism.
This is a very weird rule. Scientology originated among US Americans. Does that I can refer to prejudice against Scientologists as “anti-Americanism”? It seems to me like you believe that present-day Jews are not actually descended from the ancient Israelites, but you don’t want to go so far as to say that antisemitism can’t refer to hatred of Jews. So you chose a strange rule that would even count hatred of Japanese Catholics as antisemitism. If you think that Arabs are Semites and Jews aren’t you, can just say that.
However you want to define it, it is not exclusive to the practitioners of Judaism.
It’s indeed not exclusive to practitioners of Judaism, as some non-practicing Jews and gentiles mistaken for Jews also experience antisemitism.
The original definition that limited it to hatred of Jews is wrong and misleading.
It’s wrong and misleading because the term itself comes from 19th-century racial pseudoscience mixed with biblical literalism. It persists only out of its inertia as the primary term used to mean “hatred of Jews”. You can argue that the term should be retired for being inaccurate, but you can’t argue for it to be redefined to something else that’s just as inaccurate.
This would be like if someone made up the word “anti-Herculism” to mean hatred of Greeks, thinking that Greeks were descended from Hercules. Then after 100 years of people using the term that way, someone came and said that such usage was misleading and “anti-Herculism” should also include hatred of Italians. After all, Hercules was also a figure in the mythology of ancient Italy and because Italians and Greeks share a lot of cultural and genetic traits. Those things may be true, but they’re beside the point. There is no correct technical meaning of “anti-Herculism” because Hercules wasn’t real.
Judaism is passed maternally.
Jewish identity itself is passed matrilinially, but specific lineages are passed patrilineally: for example, status as a kohen or Levite. If “Semite” were a category in Jewish law, then it would be passed patrilineally too.
This is false. Arabs are hated for being Arab regardless of their religion or skin colour.
That link has exactly zero examples of hatred of Arabs on the basis of speaking a Semitic language. There are perhaps some people who hate Arabs for reasons unrelated to race, religion, or politics – but to say that someone’s prejudice is against “Semites,” defined by the language family, would require that they be prejudiced against speakers of Arabic, Hebrew, and Amharic, but not against speakers of Farsi or Turkish. That is not a real thing.
Ashkenazi Jews aren’t the only people in Europe with Levantine ancestry.
Your link said “Past research found that 50 percent to 80 percent of DNA from the Ashkenazi Y chromosome, which is used to trace the male lineage, originated in the Near East.” What are some other European groups that are majority-Levantine in the male line?
If you are going to claim that some Levantine ancestry 2000-3000 years ago means you are a Jew,
I did not claim that. I was responding to your statement that “European Jews can claim it [the term antisemitic] despite having no Semitic ancestry.” If you believe that there is such a thing as “Semitic” ancestry, then European Jews have it, with the exception of first-generation converts.
then there’s a whole lot more Jews than just those who practice Judaism.
It’s true that many Jews don’t practice Judaism. In my opinion, someone is a Jew if they identify as a Jew and if they either converted or have a Jewish parent. It is not just a matter of religion nor just of ancestry.
Including everyone in Palestine more or less.
Yes, Palestinians are descended from the ancient Israelites.
Because some European did something bad, Arabs have to suffer. This does repeat itself.
There are many examples of this, but being asked not redefine a word that has always referred to hatred of Jews is not one of them.
Arabs are the largest Semitic group and Arabic is the most spoken Semitic language. If anyone can claim this exclusively, it is Arabs.
FYI: Most Ashkenazi Jews are genetically Europeans, surprising study finds
All correct, but “antisemtism” is still a word that means “hatred towards the Jews” :)
You don’t have to take my word for it… see for example [1] or [2].
That’s how the Jews have labelled it. Don’t fall for the that trap.
Definitions change and words can be reclaimed. If European Jews can claim it despite having no Semitic ancestry and not speaking a Semitic language until after Zionism, why can’t Semitic people who always spoke a Semitic language? Moreso if said Semitic people have been systematically massacred and oppressed by European LARPers who weaponized the term. You are just being antisemitic.
Err… has LARPer been reclaimed too? Must be, because I have no idea what you are talking about (which shouldn’t surprise anyone, since you make up your own definitions instead of bothering with actually making yourself clear).
Anyway, until “antisemitism” is actually reclaimed (and you’ll notice because dictionaries will start listing two meanings for it), it means one precise thing and, shall you want to use the term with a different meaning, you should at the very least note that for your readers. That’s language 101: words have a conventional meaning, thanks to which we can (hope to) understand each other.
I don’t even know why I’m still arguing with you… there are lots of people (mostly in the far-right) that, exactly like you are doing here, are adamant in thinking they are the depositaries of absolute truth despite any and all evidence, and arguing with them brings zero benefit to society.
Since I’ve written this, I guess I’ll post it (before blocking your account).
According to your link, Ashkenazi Jews are descended mostly from Europeans on the maternal line but from Near-Eastern, “Semitic” people on the paternal line. The term “Semitic” comes from the biblical Shem, the son of Noah. So if Semitic ancestry were a real thing, then it would refer to the male line, and Ashkenazi Jews would have it.
But of course, Shem wasn’t a real person and there is no such thing as “Semitic” ancestry. The term antisemitic is a fossil left by 19th-century European racial pseudoscience weaponized against Jews living in European countries. There’s no reason to apply it to a different group of people unless you actually believe that certain races were descended from the biblical Shem.
The same is true of the Semitic language family. The Afro-Asiatic language family used to be called “Hamito-Semitic” from the belief that Africans descended from the biblical Ham and Asians from Shem. Linguists have updated that name, but for now no term has dislodged “Semitic” as the name of a language family.
If you want to claim that the term “antisemitic” refers to the Semitic language family, then it’s a prejudice that doesn’t exist. There’s no one on Earth who hates Arabs and Jews because they speak Semitic languages but is fine with Iranians and Turks. Hatred of both Arabs and Jews is almost always based on race, religion, and politics, not technical classifications of language families. Yes, Elon Musk called Arabic “the language of the enemy,” but there’s no doubt that he’d say the same thing about Farsi, or any other language spoken by non-white Muslims.
And finally, while Jews in the diaspora stopped speaking Hebrew and Aramaic as vernacular languages, they have always prayed in Hebrew and taken Hebrew religious names. European Jewish vernacular languages like Yiddish and Ladino carry Hebrew and Aramaic influences. And of course, many Jews historically spoke Judeo-Arabic, which is obviously a Semitic language.
Zionists and Elon Musk are racist, Islamophobic imperialists. There are plenty of terms to criticize them that aren’t confusing and pseudoscientific.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all religions that originated among Semitic people. Hatred of the practitioners of any can be considered antisemitism.
However you want to define it, it is not exclusive to the practitioners of Judaism. The original definition that limited it to hatred of Jews is wrong and misleading.
The original Jews of ancient Palestine, the Akkadians, the Arameans, and the modern Arabs as well as some Ethiopians, to list a few, do in fact share an ancestry. More than ancestry they also share cultural continuity. Pre-Islamic Arabic poetry parallels Akkadian and Babylonian hymns, specially how the role of women and the words used echoes how Ishtar was portrayed in the hymns. Fun fact the Ethiopian script originated in the Arabian Peninsula and was used to write Arabic and other languages in the past, but I digress.
Even if Shem isn’t a real person. While languages moves faster than genetics, and language shifts and assimilations happened. Semitic people can be traced back to the original people who spoke Proto-Semitic. In fact Arabic preserves some features of Proto-Semitic that are lost in Hebrew.
This is false. Arabs are hated for being Arab regardless of their religion or skin colour.
Judaism is passed maternally. Jews aren’t the only ones who believe in the story of Shem or trace themselves back to him. In fact both people trace themselves to a far more recent patriarch, Abraham.
Ashkenazi Jews aren’t the only people in Europe with Levantine ancestry. If you are going to claim that some Levantine ancestry 2000-3000 years ago means you are a Jew, then there’s a whole lot more Jews than just those who practice Judaism. Including everyone in Palestine more or less.
Because some European did something bad, Arabs have to suffer. This does repeat itself.
This is a very weird rule. Scientology originated among US Americans. Does that I can refer to prejudice against Scientologists as “anti-Americanism”? It seems to me like you believe that present-day Jews are not actually descended from the ancient Israelites, but you don’t want to go so far as to say that antisemitism can’t refer to hatred of Jews. So you chose a strange rule that would even count hatred of Japanese Catholics as antisemitism. If you think that Arabs are Semites and Jews aren’t you, can just say that.
It’s indeed not exclusive to practitioners of Judaism, as some non-practicing Jews and gentiles mistaken for Jews also experience antisemitism.
It’s wrong and misleading because the term itself comes from 19th-century racial pseudoscience mixed with biblical literalism. It persists only out of its inertia as the primary term used to mean “hatred of Jews”. You can argue that the term should be retired for being inaccurate, but you can’t argue for it to be redefined to something else that’s just as inaccurate.
This would be like if someone made up the word “anti-Herculism” to mean hatred of Greeks, thinking that Greeks were descended from Hercules. Then after 100 years of people using the term that way, someone came and said that such usage was misleading and “anti-Herculism” should also include hatred of Italians. After all, Hercules was also a figure in the mythology of ancient Italy and because Italians and Greeks share a lot of cultural and genetic traits. Those things may be true, but they’re beside the point. There is no correct technical meaning of “anti-Herculism” because Hercules wasn’t real.
Jewish identity itself is passed matrilinially, but specific lineages are passed patrilineally: for example, status as a kohen or Levite. If “Semite” were a category in Jewish law, then it would be passed patrilineally too.
That link has exactly zero examples of hatred of Arabs on the basis of speaking a Semitic language. There are perhaps some people who hate Arabs for reasons unrelated to race, religion, or politics – but to say that someone’s prejudice is against “Semites,” defined by the language family, would require that they be prejudiced against speakers of Arabic, Hebrew, and Amharic, but not against speakers of Farsi or Turkish. That is not a real thing.
Your link said “Past research found that 50 percent to 80 percent of DNA from the Ashkenazi Y chromosome, which is used to trace the male lineage, originated in the Near East.” What are some other European groups that are majority-Levantine in the male line?
I did not claim that. I was responding to your statement that “European Jews can claim it [the term antisemitic] despite having no Semitic ancestry.” If you believe that there is such a thing as “Semitic” ancestry, then European Jews have it, with the exception of first-generation converts.
It’s true that many Jews don’t practice Judaism. In my opinion, someone is a Jew if they identify as a Jew and if they either converted or have a Jewish parent. It is not just a matter of religion nor just of ancestry.
Yes, Palestinians are descended from the ancient Israelites.
There are many examples of this, but being asked not redefine a word that has always referred to hatred of Jews is not one of them.
You are just being antisemitic and I am not wasting my time with you.
you were talking to someone who sincerely believes men should be castrated because they’ve committed the bulk of all crimes, I’d say time could’ve been saved from reply number 1.
Yikes! I don’t have the habit of looking up the post history of who I am arguing with. I probably should.
Thanks for the heads up.