The atrocities at Al-Shifa Hospital are clear, but Israeli politicians say not a single civilian was killed. It’s just one of several outlandish claims Israel has made recently.

A human rights monitor documented the sniping of at least 13 children in and around Shifa Hospital, all between the ages of 4 and 16.

  • Boiglenoight@lemmy.worldEnglish
    323·
    9 months ago

    I’ve lost a lot of sympathy and just regard for Israel’s right to exist. I don’t want anyone to suffer, but I could care less if Israel as a political power were to disappear tomorrow if it meant a halt to the indiscriminate killing of people having nothing to do with attacks on Israeli people/territory.

    It’s nuts because me 10 years ago would smack current me across the mouth for even thinking such a thing. As things are, Israel is acting like a bunch of nazis. Just crazy.

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
        265·
        9 months ago

        israel is still million times better than Iran and its proxies.

        What the fuck? No it’s not. Israel is a literal Apartheid state. The fuck are they better than Iran.

        • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
          212·
          9 months ago

          What the fuck you, guy. Utterly divorced from reality. Iran has as its guiding religious and political purpose the genocide of all Jews and Christians in the middle east, same goals as Hamas.

          They think God is on their side and so they don’t realize that they are no match for Israel. When they do finally take their shot at Israel, tens of millions of people will be killed, notably when Israel turns Tehran into a sheet of glass. Think about how sads you are about 30,000 deaths and then try out how you might feel over 30,000,000 deaths. Utterly delusional assessment, as is calling Israel an apartheid state. The defining feature of apartheid is minority rule over the majority of its citizens. Israel doesn’t have that. Not only are Gazans not citizens of Israel, they aren’t citizens of any country. Israel is in fact, in law, and in political science a flawed democracy, same as America, which is by every concievable metric better than Iran, unless you use metrics such as “public executions carried out by secret religious police” or “number of human rights trampled because Mosque Daddy says so.”

          It’s absolutely stunning that you don’t realize this and so I have to ask, how far did you go in school and what did you study?

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
            71·
            9 months ago

            ran has as its guiding religious and political purpose the genocide of all Jews and Christians in the middle east, same goals as Hamas.

            Uh… You do realize Hamas accepted a two-state solution ages ago, and that Gaza actually has Christians, right? I also hope you do realize that the fact that Gazans being stateless makes Israel more of an Apartheid state. Or maybe you’d prefer “settler colonialist state subjecting Palestinians to a brutal occupation”?

            Anyway I’ll probably regret engaging with this steaming pile of propaganda, but I’ll ask: How do you feel about this, this and this?

          • mightyfoolish@lemmy.worldEnglish
            21·
            9 months ago

            Doesn’t Iran have loyal Jewish citizens?

            They should totally know they are about to be genocided… /s

              • ???@lemmy.worldEnglish
                11·
                9 months ago

                Do you know anything at all about Palestinians in Israel? Because you sound super ignorant. Do you know how many of them get killed or harassed or fired?

        • MeanEYE@lemmy.worldEnglish
          215·
          9 months ago

          Are you seriously suggesting that Iran is better than Israel in any possible terms? Some people are so far up their ass.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
            141·
            9 months ago

            Uh… Only one of these is committing genocide. Only one is an Apartheid state. Only one supports fucking ISIS. Y’all need to get your heads out of your asses and look at reality.

            • MeanEYE@lemmy.worldEnglish
              117·
              9 months ago

              There’s no racial segregation in Israel if you are implying that. There’s no ISIS support either. And there’s no genocide because killing is not indiscriminate. If it were there would be no Gaza left.

                • MeanEYE@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  113·
                  9 months ago

                  Well if anything it goes to show you decided on you think is going on and everything else needs to bend to support that idea.

              • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
                9·
                9 months ago

                Since its establishment in 1948, Israel has pursued an explicit policy of establishing and maintaining a Jewish demographic hegemony and maximizing its control over land to benefit Jewish Israelis while minimizing the number of Palestinians and restricting their rights and obstructing their ability to challenge this dispossession. In 1967, Israel extended this policy beyond the Green Line to the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which it has occupied ever since. Today, all territories controlled by Israel continue to be administered with the purpose of benefiting Jewish Israelis to the detriment of Palestinians, while Palestinian refugees continue to be excluded.

                Over the years, Israel has used military rule as a key tool to establish its system of oppression and domination over Palestinians across both sides of the Green Line, applying it over different groups of Palestinians in Israel and the OPT almost continuously since 1948 – with the exception of a seven-month gap in 1967 – to advance Jewish settlement in areas of strategic importance and to dispossess Palestinians of their land and property under the guise of maintaining security.

                You can learn more in the Apartheid Reports

                Amnesty International Report

                Human Rights Watch Report

                B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

              • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
                6·
                9 months ago

                Fuck off with your tired excuses. You’re right though, the killing isn’t indescriminate, they skillfully target aid workers, refugee convoys and hospitals. Israel isn’t an independent actor, they are killing as many as they possibly can while still maintaining just enough support to continue arms sales from the US. Even the UK government is considering halting transfers because of a fear of complicity in genocide.

              • reddit_sux@lemmy.worldEnglish
                2·
                9 months ago

                I am sure by the time this pogrom ends your words will come true. First Gaza then west bank. That is the plan of Israel.

      • mightyfoolish@lemmy.worldEnglish
        192·
        9 months ago

        Genocide against Palestinians is okay because you are racist against Iranians (a country the US and Israel is oddly keen on sabotaging in every way possible).

      • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
        182·
        9 months ago

        The concept of Transfer in Zionist thought and the displacement of Palestinians since the 1920s culminated into a full fledged ethnic cleansing campaign in 1948

        The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948

        Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.

        Plan Dalet and Plan C Details

        Before 1948, Palestinian Leadership repeatedly advocated for a Unitary Binational State for decades.

        Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928, Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937 , Arab League advocating for Unified Binational State 1948

        History of peace process

        If Israel disappeared, a State where Palestinians have equal rights to Israelis would take its place.

        How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

        ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

        • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
          110·
          9 months ago

          Now do the concept of genociding every Jew and Christian in the middle east and the concept of blowing yourself up inside a coffee shop or doing a mass shooting at a kids concert.

          If Israel disappeared, a State where Palestinians have equal rights to Israelis would take its place.

          Bro, Hamas’s motto, same as the motto of every other pan-Islamist violent religious extremists in the middle east, “Death to Israel and death to America.”

          They literally think God has ordained them to be the true rules of the entire world. They call it “restoring Islam to its rightful place” or they call it a “new world order free from infidels” or “the caliphate.”

          Like where do you even get this fictitious nonsense?

          • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
            8·
            9 months ago

            Oslo Accords MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ

            History of peace process

            Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

            What Is Hamas? - Council on Foreign Relations

            What Does Hamas Actually Want? - NY Mag

            Hamas Election - Snopes

            Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter

            The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. The 2017 Revised charter accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter

            The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. Maybe you’re thinking of the Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966.

            Like where do you even get this fictitious nonsense?

            I don’t hide my sources. I don’t know where you get your fictitious nonsense besides the IDF.

            • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
              17·
              9 months ago

              More nonsense, irrelevant spam. You don’t hide your sources. You just post an overwhelming amount of irrelevant, biased shit that would take too long to correct.

              Anyway, sorry the war still making you so sad that you reject reality to make yoursel feel better. Is denial working?

              Like the Snopes article that tries desperately to gloss over the fact that Hamas was popularly elected with innuendo and lies.

              It was true that Hamas won the latest election among Palestinians in Gaza — it happened in 2006 — though that victory was not by a majority of votes.

              It was a majority of je votes cast, not a majority of the voters. And the reason for that is because Hamas encouraged loyal their many supporters not to participate in the process, and they still won!

              I agree that doesn’t necessarily reflect what Gaza might do in an election today but we cannot know that because Hamas cancelled all future elections. Another key details omitted by you and Snopes. That’s who you support: people who will literally kill you for saying nice things about democracy.

              And all your bullshit has never once been about criticizing specific policies about Israel, it’s about proving to everyone watching that Israel is evil, not because you want Israel to get better, but because you want to justify Hamas’s actually indiscriminate killing of Jews.

              Hamas’s genocidal intent is not up for debate. It’s their sole unifying purpose over decades and their literal motto and it’s what they say to Qatar and Iran when they have their hands out for more rockets and tunnel money. God forbid they buy some food and try to improve anyone’s life.

              Here’s the substance of the Snopes claim:

              former Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett stated that when Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005, Palestinians supposedly had the opportunity to turn it into “an amazing and beautiful state.” Instead, he wrote, “A majority of Palestinians voted Hamas whose explicit goal is to destroy Israel,” and Hamas’ subsequent rocket firing, according to Bennett, forced the Israeli military to form a blockade on the Gaza Strip.

              And nothing thereafter in the article proves otherwise. This statement has been and remains 100% true. Gaza is responsible for Gaza and Gaza out Hamas in charge. Hamas shut down the airports and seaports. Hamas refused to follow any international law. They would still be doing suicide bombings if it didn’t undermine their lawfare steategy. More facts that you completely ignore.

              • Keeponstalin@lemmy.worldEnglish
                5·
                9 months ago

                The amount of projection and denial from you is unreal lol

                Most Palestinians Believe Hamas Should Change its Position on Eliminating Israel - WPO March 2, 2006

                Most Palestinians agree that Hamas should recognize Israel’s right to exist. Two-thirds (63 percent) of those polled Jan. 27-29 by Near East Consulting said Hamas should change its position calling for the elimination of Israel. Even among those who voted for Hamas, only 37 percent support Hamas’ position that Israel does not have the right to exist.

                Apparently the vast majority of Palestinians did not vote for Hamas because of its political goals but because of their desire to rid the Palestinian Authority of corruption, a theme Hamas campaigned on. Among those polled by JMCC who said they voted for Hamas, only 12 percent said they did so because of Hamas’ political agenda. A plurality of 43 percent said they voted for Hamas because they hoped it would end corruption.

                Furthermore it should be noted that Hamas did not receive the majority of the popular vote. With the Palestinians’ mixed system of proportional representation according to party support for half the seats and district seats based on population for the other half, Hamas was able to take 58 percent of all seats with only 45 percent of the overall popular vote (the 58 percent includes three independents who campaigned with Hamas).

                The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.

                Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.

                Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.'* In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.

                • Page 105

                Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.”‘°° This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.!°! (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.’°)

                • page 240

                The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

        • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.worldEnglish
          19·
          9 months ago

          The tens of millions of people of Iran after Israel retaliates, maybe the people in parts of Israel where Iron Dome can’t stop all of Iran’s missile, and the hundreds of millions of people throughout the Middle East, North Africa, and western and central Europe would will deal see a cascade of failed states stemming from a humanitarian and refugee catastrophe unlike anything the world has ever experienced. Like 30,000 people is a short footnote compared to 30,000,000, or the 300,000,000 dead and displaced we could see if col

          And this is not difficult or hard to understand, but you do have to be able to set aside your sadness over 30,000 and think rationally about the 30,000,000. This the baseline from which America and virtually the entire political and foreign service contingencies of the western world derive their middle east policy. It’s all about isolating Iran.

          Hamas actually is an ideology of genocideal violence and indiscriminate killing of civilians and is Iran’s proxy right on the border of America’s ally and the only democracy in the region.

          The key point is there is that theocratic dictatorships desired by Iran, ISIS, Hamas, the Houthis, Islamic Jihad, and other, are fundamentally incapable of establishing or protecting human rights because their laws are based on religious whims of a one or two extreme religious muckity mucks.

          So like, anyone actually concerned about humanity and human rights and yet throwing their weight in behind Iran or its proxies, against Israel, is doing the opposite of what they are concerned for. I know it’s hard. 30,000 people, very sad. Not nearly as sad as it could get, quickly and easily, though, if Iran jumps off.

          There are plenty of people who know way more about this than I do who think hot war between Israel and Iran is imminent. If Trump gets reelected, he will definitely try to start it. He already did once, and the only reason it stopped is because when Iran responded, they accidentally shot down its own civilian airliner.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
            4·
            9 months ago

            Hamas actually is an ideology of genocideal violence and indiscriminate killing of civilians and is Iran’s proxy right on the border of America’s ally and the only democracy in the region.

            Man almost half the people Israel rules (Gaza and the West Bank are occupied no matter how much Zionists would like to believe otherwise, source: UN) don’t have voting (or human for that matter) rights. And we’re seeing them crack down on dissent using extrajudicial (or effectively extrajudicial) arrests as we speak. Democracy my ass.

          • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
            12·
            9 months ago

            For the locals because these terrorist proxies do not seem to care about civilians at all

            There’s a reason it’s the US and not Iran that is known for bombing weddings. Not that I like Iran, but only one of them is called the Great Satan.