The top European Union court ruled on Tuesday that public authorities in member states can prohibit employees from wearing signs of religious belief, such as an Islamic head scarf, in the latest decision on an issue that has divided Europe for years.

The case came to the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU) after an employee of the eastern Belgian municipality of Ans was told she could not wear an Islamic head scarf at work.

  • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Very well. Let’s logic for fun. In philosophy debate there is a means of breaking down a proof into separate points and evaluate an arguement as a series of statements which build on each other. Anything that does not build off of the points but instead on something that isn’t relevant to the arguement is a fallacy . Normally you atomize it and break down each point as a series of statements. In the interest of brevity let’s break yours roughly into two main points.

    • That Religion is a Mental illness.

    • Mental illness is a valid disqualification from participating in a government service

    So let’s take the two halves of your arguement and cut it down to one and deal with the pieces separately. For now we’ll entertain this notion that religion was a mental illness for purposes of getting past you sounding like a bloody broken record.

    So in the matter of ethics in the field of mental illness and disability it is widely accepted thay Employers are prohibited from discriminating against mental health in the workplace. Under human rights legislation in the US and any number of democratic societies at this point employers have an obligation to accommodate their employees with disabilities, including mental health concerns, to the extent of undue hardship.

    Where I am this is covered under section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the main constitutional document of my country. In the US this is covered more by a smattering of federal laws - an overlap of the Equality act, The American with Disabilities Act and the Rehabilitation Act which was fought for in the era of civil rights alongside racial discrimination. Both have a history of activism. The disability front at the time is actually quite heroic. I would look up “Ed Roberts and The Rolling Quads”. Think Martin Luther King but paralyzed from the neck down performing sit ins and demonstrations in Government buildings.

    Whether something should be illegal (such as mental illness discrimination) usually is built off an ethical arguement. This one, campaigned for so brilliantly by people who had to overcome more than the regular obstacles has a lot of roots in the evolution of thought in Natural/Human Rights. The idea that you as a human simply by virtue of being one have a right to live, not be subject to undue cruelty, and are assured equal participation in your society. At a more fundamental level rests the idea that your natural advantages and disadvantages are randomly determined and a fair society is one that compensates for this randomness by not excluding people by mere lack of effort. There’s this concept that social systems ideally should be created from a standpoint of pretending you are a person who doesn’t yet know what random attributes you will have once you exist inside the society you build.

    So the first question as to whether our veiws are at all reconcilable is :

    1. Do you believe in the underlying principles of universal human rights?

    2. If so, should human rights extend to people with mental illness?

    If you do not agree with either of these two points we really have nothing in common and I feel justified that your views are by my standards unethical and there’s very little we can reconcile… because even if we look at religion as an illness it’s my dearly held belief that it should be an unlawful and widely agreed unethical grounds to refuse hiring someone or not reasonably accommodate a mental illness in any job much less one that is a democratic institution that serves “the people”. In all cases where governments decide they don’t have to follow their own rules I rarely like the result.

    • HamSwagwich@showeq.com
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      11 months ago

      I’m not going to read all that, as I started and realized you are, once again, either being disingenuous or your zealotry is clouding your argument, either way, it’s very clearly invalid from the first paragraph as you set up the strawmen again to bolster your flawed position.

      As such, I’ll respond up until then point you go off the rails:

      I said keep religion/mental illness out of the (governmental) workplace. If you need to express your mental illness to everyone in the work place you aren’t fit to work there. You need to seek help. Your display of religious paraphernalia is no different than you viewing porn on your computer/phone where everyone can see it. It’s no different than you wearing other objectionable material. You just have this arbitrary line in your mind at “religion” because that’s your thing and you can’t conceive the fact that it’s offensive to other people. It’s not offensive to you, so it’s ok. But other things are offensive to you, so they aren’t ok. That’s your bias.

      There are things that are offensive to you that are not offensive to me but I’m not the one arguing to allow those things in the (governmental) workplace because I’m not a self centered narcissist who thinks my way is right and any other way is wrong. I want to treat everyone equally, which means no special carve outs for religion. You want to treat religion as a special case.

      That is wrong. Plain and simple.

      • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Welp if you are not bothering to read my replies and pretending you actually understand the meaning of strawman while basing your entire schitck around the least effective ad hominem attacks I’ve encountered then there’s no real reason to continue.

        That you won’t answer even two direct questions to nail down a basic ethical baseline to expand from tells me that even you can’t defend your own position for shit. Not surprising you don’t want to look too closely at your own opinions in the mirror.

        Anyway, it’s been fun.

        • HamSwagwich@showeq.com
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          11 months ago

          Let me sum up your argument:

          “My religious views are right. As long as I approve of your religious choices they are ok, but I will arbitrarily draw the line where I see fit and if you disagree with me you are wrong.”

          That’s literally what your argument boils down to.

          • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Not even a little close. Now I just think you’re dumb as shit and don’t know how to read. Are you a bot? Maybe that explains why you just say the same thing over and over.

            • HamSwagwich@showeq.com
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              11 months ago

              Lol ok… maybe you should go back and read what you’ve written. You are a religious zealot who can’t see the forest for the trees and think that anyone who doesn’t believe in your bullshit is wrong and crazy. Whatever dude. If you think I’m saying the same thing over and over it’s because you keep spouting all your nonsense and I’m trying to educate the terminally stupid, which is obviously a losing battle.

                • HamSwagwich@showeq.com
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                  11 months ago

                  Then stop making stupid replies that are full of bullshit and thinking everyone would subscribe to your stupid religion.

                  • Drivebyhaiku@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    Yeah, sure. You really aren’t coming across as anybody I would count as an authority. More like a screaming middle schooler in full tantrum…but you are progressively are getting more boring. Don’t you do anything new?