• Rottcodd@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    128
    arrow-down
    5
    ·
    11 months ago

    As intended.

    Israel’s strategy with the West Bank is masterful. Wholly and completely evil, but masterful.

    Either the Palestinians just accept their lot, in which case Israel incrementally takes their land through their “settler” proxies, or the Palestinians (entirely justifiably) try to fight back, in which case the IDF goes in and kills a bunch of them, and Israel takes their land anyway.

    It’s fucking despicable, but it works, and if one is devoid of morality, empathy or simple human decency, that’s all that matters.

    • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      60
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      11 months ago

      Modeled perfectly after the settler-colonial tactics of the US taking over native land.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        37
        arrow-down
        8
        ·
        11 months ago

        Nope.

        Don’t get me wrong, they’re both genocides.

        But America just kept pushing the survivors west a couple thousand miles at a time, and at least they got some land. Even if there was no where to displace them to, America would have just killed them all.

        Israel is compacting people in a box, physically and psychologically it’s torture. Then, when some snap and do some crazy shit, they kill a bunch of people and make the box smaller

        They’ve been doing it for the whole 70 years Israel has existed.

        And it gives right wing extremist politicians a constant Boogeyman and without any real threat to themselves, and keeps them in power. So its never going to change.

        • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          That’s an analysis I hadn’t considered. I was thinking about instances like Wounded Knee, the 1862 Sioux Uprising, etc and the aftermath of US colonialism that resulted in the small plots of land they were forcibly exiled to.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          11 months ago

          Well it seems like they’re trying to push Gaza’s refugees into Egypt, so they might have a final solution to the Palestinian question.

      • livus@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        11 months ago

        Modelled after the settler colonial tactics of the Americans, British, French, Portuguese, Spanish, Boer, Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, Chinese, Germans etc etc

        Settler colonialism is an old evil, we saw it do immense damage in the 18th and 19th centuries. Many of us live with its legacy and are still picking up the pieces.

        • zerfuffle@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          That’s actually not how modern China gained territory. The settlements in Xinjiang were explicitly designed to not step on the traditional Uyghur economic/cultural center of Kashgar. Instead, settlement surrounded Urumqi, a place that used to be a backwater of backwaters (the name meaning “beautiful pasture”). Even today, Kashgar and it’s surrounding areas are majority Uyghur (by far), while Urumqi is majority Han.

      • amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        11 months ago

        That just isn’t true, the majority of the population of American Indians died via disease without ever meeting a European. Also, Americans on many occaisons had virtually no qualms with just committing outright genocide, whereas Israel actually needs “tactics” to try to cover it up.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          11 months ago

          Israel doesn’t have qualms about committing genocide, they just don’t want to piss off their neighbors or make their allies uncomfortable.

        • livus@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          ·
          11 months ago

          via disease

          That doesn’t really change the main point though.

          If the rest of your family dies and you live alone in your house, then I come and force you out and steal your house. I still stole it.

        • rockSlayer@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          I agree, but just for clarity’s sake most of the deaths due to disease weren’t strictly intentional until long after we were genociding them. I’m not saying it’s a mirror image of the US genocides, I’m saying that the Israeli government is modeling their methods after the US, and playing politics about their genocide.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          11
          ·
          edit-2
          11 months ago

          No it wasn’t. Stealing land? Sure. Forced religious conversion? Sure. Invasion and occupation? Sure.

          Genocide, though, only really started in this millennia. Before that, land conquest would just involve replacing the government and institutions, not killing/displacing the local population to have them replaced with settlers. It just didn’t make sense for most of human history.

          Not to say things were good! Instead of genocide, the more common tactic throughout history was mass enslavement.

          • squiblet@kbin.social
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            11 months ago

            “Started this millennia” is not the same thing as “USA was the first to ever do that”. Of course groups expanded into territory held by others and pushed them out and killed them. I mean, there’s tales of similar things in the Bible. It’s also not really the same as what is happening in Gaza at all.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              11 months ago

              I would say the concept of genocide didn’t really exist before the concept of the nation-state, which is a relatively recent development that happened to coincide with the so-called “discovery” of the New World. That’s hardly the USA’s invention though! Europe pioneered the concept and used it to colonize all over the world.

      • Enk1@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        11 months ago

        I love that you name-drop the US when it was the English, Spanish, Dutch, and French that raped every continent and genocided entire cultures before the idea of the United States even existed.

        • Captain Janeway@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          Ok. But the US did exist during westward expansion. America is a pretty modern look at colonialism. The “USA” territory was originally untouched by westward expansion. It therefore functions as a super recent, unmuddied, look at colonialism. It’s a good example.

        • mellejwz@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          11 months ago

          So basically they had enough examples to learn from, but completely ignored it and do the same?

    • Silverseren@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      11 months ago

      Oh, and don’t forget that the IDF have been reported on (and even video taped themselves) stealing money, jewelry, and anything else valuable they can grab in Gaza while they’re there.

    • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      11 months ago

      It’s funny, it’s pretty similar to what the US government did when they sent in settlers out to the west. Once over enough settlers staking out clams of land, it ended up crowding out the native Americans which led to conflict, and then you ended up with Custer killing bison on the Great plains.

      • Rottcodd@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        11 months ago

        I think the significant part there though is that it’s what the US government did almost 200 years ago. Not that that excuses it, but it was a much more primitive and ignorant world then, and at least some of it can be ascribed to that primitiveness and ignorance.

        Doing the same thing in the modern world though - that’s just pure, unmitigated evil.

        • livus@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          11 months ago

          @Rottcodd I agree with this. We know now how bad that stuff back then was and we know the generations of misery it creates.

          Doing it now would be like going back to legalising spousal rape and handling plutonium without protection.