Right now I have a NAS running 24/7 for some self hosted apps (p2p, *arr…) and as primary storage for my multimedia files.
This NAS has some limitations because it has a low spec hardware and the OS is “propietary”, so sometimes I have issues with docker or I miss some random feature that “standard” Linux distros have.
I work in IT and deal with the technology at home sometimes feels like a second job. I’m thinking that maybe I could simplify my home hardware avoiding NAS servers and use only my main desktop running 24/7 . This could give me a lot of flexibility (a standard OS, VMs, standard docker, better hardware, faster file operations because no LAN involved…) and less hardware to deal with.
Does anybody went this way? Any recommendations in favor or against it?
Sorry for my english.
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I’ve used a retired desktop for my home server since 1999. It doesn’t have the fancy web-UI management of commercial NAS, but I’m comfortable with command line and config files.
At some point, I realized I could use its wifi card and hostapd to replace my WAP. That was a bit of an adventure initially finding a card that really supports AP mode and setting up hostapd, but has now allowed me to migrate from 802.11g to n to ac much cheaper than buying whole new devices,
Recently converted to an N100 with 4x ethernet ports, which let me unplug my little 5-port switch.
Managing this doesn’t feel like a second job: it’s stable and just works. Automatic updates, with kernel blacklisted; periodically log in, update kernel & reboot. It does give me the opportunity, when I get inspired, for a weekend project, like adding hostapd or a new service, either via docker or bare metal. I like that I have one device doing “NAS,” WAP, and router jobs.
There’s some power sipping mini ITX boards that are intended for servers. They are Intel N150 based and let you add a ton of ram. I have one in a Jonsbo NAS case with 6 drives in a ZFS pool. If you’re inclined to build your own, you have lots of options.
im a firm believer in task appropriate stuff… 24/7 server apps should be on a dedicated server box… network storage should only perform storage tasks. i wouldnt use a primary workstation also as server cuz i want to do crazy shit on my workstation. i wouldnt ever want to interfere with my ‘production’ stuff on the server.
ive been quite happy running a headless server and various nas boxes for storage redundancy… my home related i.t. tasks are very minimal now that everything is solidly automated.
Absolutely agree. My DD distro accidentally gets borked sometimes as fiddling can go too far, and it’s become essential that it doesn’t interfere with services my wife uses (file storage, movies/tv, etc). Plus, if everything was going down every so often, she’d probably start looking at me twice for the money I’ve invested in my server rack.
I have one box running TrueNas Core as a straight file server only, and another box running Proxmox for applications plus VMs for projects, as well as network gear and a surveillance NVR. Thankfully, she never sees the power bill. But, this way everything keeps humming and I don’t get an earful.
I have just set up a normal computer with the specs I wanted, installed debian and docker/podman and I’m golden.
I bought a NAS appliance once. I didn’t like it for basically the same reasons you listed. Since then I’ve moved to a regular Linux machine and it’s been great.
It’s probably worth it to get a whole other computer and run that 24/7. That way you can mess up your personal desktop and not mess up any of your hosted apps.
Lenovo Thnkcentre Tiny or other tiny form factor PC for this, you can buy used/refurb on eBay or Amazon or wherever. quiet, low power, stackable, take up very little room, very cheap. mine are running with minimal Debian and Docker, mostly under 5% utilization.
my main desktop running 24/7
a standard OS
Congrats to running Linux on your desktop
better hardware
That’s what usually kept me from doing it, because it sucks up too much power while idling around most of the day.
I use arch btw.
Yep I changed my whole setup recently - had a Synology DS920+ running with docker containers for everything. I had started moving stuff off to a NUC because the NAS was starting to struggle.
What I ended up doing was buying a Mac Mini M4 and a DAS, and just running everything on the Mac with it running 24/7, and the DAS just acts like a giant HDD (and it’s running in RAID). Performance of everything is out of this world better, while power draw is significantly less. The Mac Mini M4 is unbeatable as a home server imo.
This is what I’ve been trying to figure out, so I’m glad you did it. I have a Synology too and I’ve outgrown it, but building my own server scratch is daunting so I just wanted to hook a DAS up to a mini PC and call it good. But there were a lot of people online saying it was a bad idea.
There are lots of people online who think they are smarter than they are haha
Doing it this way is super simple and comes with many benefits and pretty much zero drawbacks. Another huge benefit is you can then sign up to backblaze personal computer backup plans which give you unlimited data backups for like $10 a month. I currently have my entire media library along with my entire Mac Mini hard drive (over 40TB in total) backed up in backblaze. To do that with a NAS would cost me thousands of dollars a year.
There are ways to back up a NAS with the Backblaze personal plans.
Sure, but none as easy as doing it the right way - and none that are guaranteed to not get your backblaze account banned.
The Mac Mini M4 is unbeatable as a home server imo.
How do you figure that?
It’s insanely powerful yet sips power like a raspberry pi.
It has a full OS that is mainstream so it’s easy to find any help you need.
It’s the best bang for your buck machine on the market.
It can run everything you want a home server to run.
Do you disagree? Why?
Well, it’s apple hardware and runs macos, so it’s a bit kneecapped. It’s not as flexible. But it is solid and you can run almost anything you can on Linux.
I wouldn’t have even thought to purchase a new Mac anything as a server. That is definitely not their target use case.
What are you running at home that requires “insane power?” I’m running a servarr stack on an old Xeon that cost a fraction of a Mac mini and it works just fine. And I have room in the case for full size HDDs.
I’ve heard of people using old Mac mini as servers, and I guess whatever makes you happy. I definitely don’t see how they’re the ultimate home server.
I can have a dozen people streaming from my Plex server and it doesn’t even break a sweat, while also handling all my *arr’s, homeassistant OS, and basically anything I would use a normal computer for.
With the power it has it will be able to handle basically anything I want to throw at it for the next decade, while sipping electricity like a light bulb.
I don’t see how a tiny, cheap, insanely powerful, insanely power efficient, full OS running machine isn’t the ultimate home server? What argument is there against it? What is a better one?
Personally, I want to properly isolate the services with virtualization. The main reason is I expose some of the services online, and I don’t t want to only rely on keeping all software up-to-date at all times. This allows me to limit the damage if one of the services is compromised.
I wouldn’t use MacOS as the virtualization platform, and instead use something else, like BSD, Linux, or xen-based for my servers
I wouldn’t use MacOS as the virtualization platform
Mac’s can run docker you know?
I know, yes. But I’m talking about virtualization, not containerizarion
Right, so it does basically the same thing mine does, and I don’t need an external DAS, and I can upgrade hardware, and it cost me a fraction of yours. I don’t know how much power mine uses because it’s a non-issue. My bill is the exact same as before I deployed it.
What’s yours look like?
Mine will last way longer than yours, it’s way more powerful than yours so can do a multitude of things that yours couldnt ever dream of doing, I don’t need a DAS either - I could just have easily kept using my NAS for the storage without issue, and while you can upgrade your hardware that costs more money and it still won’t be as good as mine (and with mine having multiple high speed thunderbolt ports, I can very easily just add dozens of TB’s of ultra fast storage that essentially acts as if it’s on-board). I don’t think you understand just how much better the Mac Mini hardware is than yours lol.
My bill is the exact same as before I deployed it.
Oh wow you got a magical setup that uses no power? Can you let some scientists come check it out? My power bill reduced with my new setup.
The Mac Mini M4 is objectively better than your server. Objectively, not subjectively.
An Escalade is objectively more powerful than my car; doesn’t make it better at getting groceries, and it cost eight times as much.
Anyway, enjoy your thing, I guess.
Why not use the NAS as a NAS and pick up a cheap SFF or mini workstation for the compute tasks? Only reason I would ever consider running your endpoint as a server 24/7 is cost/availability of just adding a dedicated box.
Yeah, that is my standard way of doing things. Old desktop becomes the server, and it’s specs blow everything I want it to do out of the water, so things like file storage (and the CPU required to encrypt-on-disk), etc have no chance of ever presenting an issue. Though, I do have a pair of Pis with POE hats on them (as well as a POE switch), because I really like POE.
Then I set it up for auto-updates and proceed to ignore it. Love very simple home networking setups that still accomplish every goal.
The dedicated NAS appliances really annoy me. Every time I have had to use one I just think ‘I can just do this in Linux on any random desktop lying around, why am I learning another proprietary thing?’
I’m in the same boat going the opposite way. I want to move my server stuff to separate hardware from my main PC.
@lIlIllIlIIIllIlIlII I don’t have a NAS hardware. The only thing I have is 1 old PC that I’m using as a 24/7 server. And it’s just AWESOME! I really encourage you to do it. I have a lot of self-hosted stuff and everything runs smoothly. Even Jellyfin and Frigate at the same time (Both use video encoding and decoding) on my CPU! Because my GPU is just so old (2012) that the system doesn’t even recognize it.
Do you have any concerns about solid state storage life? Are you using any RAID?
@lIlIllIlIIIllIlIlII in my current setup I have 1 SSD and 3 HDDs. Not using any RAID. I still have plans to upgrade the hardware, which is something that isn’t possible using NAS hardware. I need to change almost everything here. Better storage, better RAM and a compatible GPU. The only thing that I’m not worried for now is the CPU, it’s doing a decent job handling everything alone, even 4k video encoding.
An rpi might work for your computer issues.
