https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

I’m so confused… I’m just trying to understand what Zionism is here… it’s a colonial project to bring about a Jewish state according to Wikipedia. I understand, could be lying. I have in Israeli friend and a Turkish friend I’ll get their opinion on, but from what I am getting is that you disagree with the claim of the wiki article?

Hamas rejected peace treaties. Dismissed them as racist. I don’t disagree and wouldn’t disagree with First Nations people saying and doing the exact same thing by rejecting the peace treaties. If First Nation people did what Hamas did and rejected the peace treaties, would you agree with them, then? If peace treaties can be determined null and void after the fact, why would you be against an Oct 7 style attack by a very rightful and angry First Nations group? Again, I say this because this is how I rack with my ideology. I believe in the right of free people and would even understand legitimately the idea behind it. I just cannot and will not condone the attack. I am incapable of condoning it. I cannot and will not condone any group of human beings who takes responsibility for what happened on Oct 7. I don’t support Israel, it just makes it impossible for me to support Hamas, it was inexcusable. I cannot imagine that happening to my neighbors. I love my neighbors. Those were happy people who got slaughtered for wanting a happy life. My neighbors immigrated here, I’m weeping for the day Trump is deporting them, but some people are happy. My neighbors are also born and raised here, I’d weep for the day anyone decided they were colonizers. It doesn’t make it right.

Okay, but this is defending Hamas Jihad against anyone they deem a colonizer. They lay exactly who is an oppressor and what territory they claim to resist and jihad in the liberation of the oppressed Muslims, Christians, and Jews from Israeli colonial Zionistic occupation (all people in all of Israel and Palestine are considered Palestinians to Hamas).

Every person who recognizes the borders of Israel is killable to Hamas.

Am I misinterpreting their statements?

Alright, I’ll agree that Israel is not the Jewish state. My understanding of “Zionism” is that it attempts to establish one, though, is that true? As in, Israel does want to be a Jewish ethnostate? We agree it is not representative of all Jews, 100% agreement there. It may still want that, no? I’m not sure what a Jewish state even is, I’m not at all familiar with the customs. So is Israel actually wanting to be Jewish in its government (again, I don’t know it well), or is that just a claim that Hamas is saying? I don’t actually associate Israel with Jewish sentiment mind you, never have never will. I’m just confused as to what even is the Zionism that Hamas hates

Made it clearer for ya

Neither would I. I wouldn’t blame them for wanting their land back either with violence. I just would never condone that level of violence no matter the reason, not on innocent life, even innocent colonizers like my neighbors are.

My goodness I’m literally autistic and I am legitimately fucking confused because I am just wondering if Israel is legitimately secular or not because I literally don’t have your perspective and you are, unfortunately, confusing my autistic communication style for bigotry. You see how I’m as confused as you are, no? I’m literally asking questions without assuming anything. I am wondering honestly holy shit. I do not know if Israel is legitimately Jewish or secular, I assume it’s secular this entire time and just was very Jewish, much like the US not not literally a Christian nation.

Here they reject peace deals.

Hamas decided peace was not acceptable by rejecting these accords.

They retain the right to use jihad to establish the following state (note the lack of Judaism mentioned anywhere in this).

I’m simply asking who is right: Hamas or you? You said Israel is not a Jewish state, Hamas says it is. Hamas acknowledges and agrees that it is a Jewish state, but your comment said it was not at all. I am just confused on who to believe, I want to assume both of you are right but that can’t be true from how I’m seeing it?

Yes, and they claim the right to do what they did to innocent people. They are innocent , as much as my neighbors in America are innocent, even though they are from all races and nationalities, they still are occupying First Nation land as defended by American colonizers and upholded by colonial capitalism. My neighbors are colonizers as much as I am, a half Filipino. My mom is a colonizer and is full blooded Filipino. She, and all of my neighbors deserves anything she gets if First Nation people wanted America back the same way Hamas wanted Palestine back for the Palestinians?

I do not disagree that I would not at all be surprised if First Nation people were so fucking hateful towards Americans, but would I defend that act? I couldn’t, I love my neighbors. They are beautiful Muslims, Christians, black, Mexican, white, old, young, etc. What Hamas does to innocent people like them, I just can’t do it. There has to be other ways.

Look at any of my other comments man, you will absolutely see I love my Muslim brothers and sisters. I even say I am okay with the spread of Islam and the Arab ethnicity, I just don’t support it via state or violent means (I don’t support in theocracy or ethnostates).

I am against nationalists of all religions and political ideologies. Hamas is not exempt from this.

Is Israel Zionist then? If it is Zionist, it would be a Jewish state. Hamas claims it is Zionist. They claim they are a Jewish government, and because their government is Jewish, it should be destroyed. They changed their tune from “the Jews must be eliminated” to “the Jewish state must be eliminated” in 2017. Are they a Jewish state as Hamas claims, or are they not as you claim?

I know what it means, I understand it means to struggle. They use it in a violent context, it is not misinterpreted.

I’m sorry, but Hamas is not worth defending. I want peace for Gazans and everyone over there. I hate that Jews were given the fucking shaft because of Britain and the Ottoman Empire. There’s just too much history here to even call this simply Zionism, it is too reductionist.

If Hamas dedicated themselves to disarming after and allowing all people to exist as a separate state from Islam, I’m all for it. Go Hamas if that’s what they want. Hell yeah, bring peace to your people, the Jews, the Christians, the atheists, etc. Allow them to vote in your society, allow them all to participate in government and practice their faith openly and without persecution.

They do not want this. They want an Islamic state guided by Islamic faith to rule over the land of Judea/Israel/whatever. I do not desire this.

Look at the other replies here, I posted sections of Hamas’ 2017 peace document which explicitly states their right to jihad and I got “yeah, jihad is fine” from someone. People defend Hamas here.

If First Nations Americas started an intifada like on oct 7 against my neighbors, would you disagree with their strategy and disavow the people who claimed responsibility, or would you defend them?

Luigi killed an oppressor. Teenagers and old ladies that Hamas targets in their atracks are not oppressors. I’m not unaware of Israel, but Hamas does use human shields. This is a fact. Hamas cannot ever do this. It is inhumane. It shreds them of innocence. It makes removing Hamas impossible without innocent loss, and I hear you on wanting thay. If oct 7 resulted in only oligarchs and military leaders and politicians being targeted I’d be having a different discussion. If any intifada by Hamas had desired peace instead of total war, we’d have a different discussion. Hamas is as evil as Israel is, I agree.

Their self-claimed right to religious jihad? The spreading of an Islamic ethnic state? Nothing wrong the the spread of Islam or the Arabic ethnicity, but i disagree on violent means (jihad and by establishing a state). Do you?

Their end goal is to jihad Israel until they are gone, wiped off the earth. We’ll just assume the Jews will be safe, I guess? I don’t like the state of Israel, but I don’t want the world to lose the Jewish people, and I don’t trust Hamas to be the protector of so many Jews. I have seen zero evidence that Hamas will be willing to risk their lives to protect and save the lives of innocent Jewish people. Again, I just want a better option than Hamas for the people of Gaza and the West Bank. I want a better option for the people of Israel/Judea too, than their current state.

My goodness, I’m just trying to have a level head here? I have never supported Hamas, before or after October 7th. I very much remember their suicide bombings of busses. Do I excuse the IRA during the troubles? No. Fuck the IRA, but I don’t disagree with their plight. I agree that the Irish people deserve their land. Same with the people in Gaza and the West Bank. I hate the British empire as much as I hate the Israeli state. I hate Hamas as much as I hate the IRA.