Stop saying you know if you haven’t done it. If you knew you would have done it.

Edit: /s, was supposed to jokingly drop one of the canned responses we all receive from dumb people

Systemic ableism is the problem, not “having to deal with being neurodivergent”. Otherwise there would be no “solved” state. Though a solved state is pretty easy to get a decent definition of: A state wherein neurodivergent people have a equal outcomes in each area with respect to their neurotypical counterparts with the same base aptitude in the same subject matter, regardless of the differences in the path needed to realize whatever that aptitude is.

Now, that said, that only describes something that is lacking. I haven’t even heard of an education system that doesn’t specifically punish neurodivergent behavior, which, worse than something that is missing everywhere, is a negative that is present everywhere. So let’s call eliminating this a compromise solve.

As far as the ethnocentrism argument and it only being relevant if it’s solved somewhere, well, I guess the poor construction of that would be: “The ethnocentrism argument is only valid if there is an example of the problem being completely solved.” which I guess you sort or addressed effectively and I may have sloppily implied by accident. What I really was trying to say though, was, “The ethnocentrism argument only applies to this specific observation if you have an example of a school system to which the observation does not apply.” which I still stand by and still doubt you have such an example.

Can you name an education system globally that has solved the problems of diverse needs in education, and especially the type of neurodiverse needs that these types of memes generally reference? Because I do agree that activism that ignores diverse needs across a cultural and national axis is a problem, but it’s only a problem that applies here if there’s a place on Earth where this doesn’t apply.

I used to have a sort of wishful thinking-esque belief that there were better places for the education of neurodivergent children. When I was much younger I thought it must be one of the other local districts near me. Then I thought maybe another US state or western country. Then I finally tried to think globally. But I’ve yet to hear a description, in all of that desperate searching, of a widespread approach to education that actually addresses these problems or even considers them problems. I’m open to being wrong though. Can you show me one? Can you point at even one? Because if my cultural bias has blanked one out I really want to know which.

I definitely never said that there aren’t education systems that are better than other education systems because none are perfect, or implied that at all.

And the mistake you’ve made here is assuming that conceptually, something not being done correctly anywhere currently means it’s impossible. That idea basically negates the idea of human progress. There are lots of things currently being done that, in the past, were tried and failed simultaneously by many institutions across the planet before it was solved and the solution proliferated.

Education that is applied equitably to people who have different needs is a problem that, if solved in the theoretical realm (still doubt), definitely hasn’t been solved at the implementation step widely anywhere. I don’t think you could name a single country where education outcomes are equitable for ND people with respect to their NT counterparts with similar base capabilities. But it’s definitely possible.

Not true. The state of the art of education is in a certain place where education systems that are doing the best anyone is doing are still doing so with ableist discrimination forward. Those looking to the “most successful” education systems will be imitating these practices as well. The current best is far from the best it could be though, and things could be changed radically to remove that ableist discrimination.

Did WinRAR start charging at some point or are they still all talk?

I totally understand the difficulty of this. I’d say it took years for the frustration of not finishing things to override the resistance to picking up the old save.

I started picking up old saves instead of restarting and now I finish them eventually. So then when you abandon the game you can say you’ll get to it on a future iteration of this cycle.

Yes, and I used to get right to it and do it guilt free, but the negative association with having those things punished as a child and teen made it harder to enjoy things permanently. I think paradigms for raising kids right now kind of do this to kids that get fixated on stuff. There’s gotta be a way to nurture the deep enjoyment of things and still get the kid to eat and sleep and go to school (which is also broken and might make the whole thing harder to fix).

I’ve been wondering lately if I wouldn’t be more able to control it if I’d been educated in a way that was for me.

On one hand, the trauma from big and small punishments for not being as good at “traditional” task completion styles causes a certain type of reaction around task completion. I think this negative side is the side most people would agree with.

But aside from the present negatives, what about the absent positives? Most people get educated from early childhood to complete tasks in a style that suits them. The systemic memory of how to complete tasks the way neurotypical people complete tasks gets passed down to them and gives them the best chance to get the best of their inherent way of doing things. What if people who complete tasks differently had this sort of education? Would controlling the hyper fixation be more universal? Idk just something I’ve been thinking about.

Edit spelling

That sounds disgusting. This kind of thing is why I never move jobs.

Who at what company is having the conversation “let’s do (generic pattern)” without facing some kind of problem or inherent design need that can be solved by (generic pattern). Do these companies need software developers or did they just notice that all of the other companies have them? Surely some sort of inherent needs are driving their software.

Edited to make the generic pattern clearer

Nobody can see this -> some people can see this -> anybody can see this

If there was nothing compelling you to turn it on, what exactly were you forgetting about? Surely you remembered how to do it, but were you presented a reason to do it by the situation you were in?

Those little classroom assignments were definitely not all spelled out from the start and that’s what I didn’t have the capacity to participate in all the time. But say I started off at like 70% capacity. Getting hounded and called lazy and sometimes actually punished during that extra 30% causes my capacity to go down to say 60%. Then I’m being hounded and punished 40% of the time which has an even bigger effect and basically keeps my burnout at 100% and my ability to participate suppressed to 0. The lower my total capacity for participation is the more severe consequences start to be too. Punishments become more likely for sure. This starts to turn into a really wide scope of trauma.

To add to this point slightly, I also did literally say out loud many times that the school work is dumb and I refused, if that makes me sound more like your brother. That is because at even younger ages, I’d been punished and abused out of using the phrase “I can’t” for things they’ve seen me do at least one time before. Things escalated and got much more harsh when I tried to say it, so I was forced to switch to lies, elitist posturing, emotional manipulation, anything that would end the interaction without “I can’t.” Eventually I forgot that I can’t and started believing a subset of my lies.

I am a firm believer that the phenomenon of “just a lazy fuck” doesn’t exist. I don’t know your brother, but I know the terms in which you refer to him were used on me pretty much just like that. And the reasons why those things were happening didn’t come to light until long after the era in which the terms were used. Even after the first couple diagnoses, my IEP (sheet teachers have that says what they have to accommodate for you) didn’t say anything that really related to any of the problems I was actually literally having. The cruel irony is that it said I needed longer on tests, which I never needed and was the only thing I was even successful at. Lazy is just a way to stereotype people who’s problems you’ve given up on.

In most cases the more aggressive forms of force came from well meaning people that started out with the type you describe, with a very gradual escalation. The problem is that my burnout was compounding, not reducing, over time when I tried to comply which would lead to this increasing dread over time and eventually would lead to just a total failure. When I reach total failure, they just keep on pressing until it’s a more overt form of abuse. The more overt forms only came out initially a very small number of times. So I really was talking about the sort of force you’re describing, but on a sort of spectrum that leads to the sort you were inferring.

Sorry to reply to two of your comments, but to specifically address “people like us need to be forced to do things”, but people trying to force me and belittling me when I just could not in the end, is what gave me cptsd. There definitely are other ways than force, and for me force just isn’t even a way. For me, seeking out that sort of force would be a form of self harm that would only serve to drive and reinforce my (now dissipating) self hatred. Maybe for others it is a form of self harm that also gets results, or maybe for others it just isn’t harmful, I can’t be sure, but we can’t be forcing it on every kid.

I am a 100% work from home worker and have gotten more work done that way than ever before. Of course, all in person management leads to me shutting down and eventually losing my ability to do anything once I’m done with my reserve of will to push through the burnout.

I will admit there was a learning curve. I had to learn how to arrange my tasks so that it works for me. I don’t “sit down” for a 9-5 work day any more than I have a dedicated session to do any personal task. I wake up and I’m kind of on a cooldown management system. From the moment I get out of bed, and I don’t get out of bed until I’m rested and have a plan, I just pick what the best priority task would be to do, cool down from the picking, do any amount of work on that task that moves the needle, only ever pushing into potential burnout territory if I’ve fallen short of moving the needle at all. If it’s a rough day I’ll go back into cooldown after any needle movement at all. If it’s a great day I’ll get it and the next thing done. I cool down and task pick all day until I’m pretty much out of gas for the day.

Sometimes I’m netting a loss of ground on tasks but never go into free fall. Over the broader course of my life id say I’m netting a gain, but time will tell, and this lifestyle is really only possible as a remote working software developer. The only real exception to that is setting alarms for meetings, which are my only “schedule” requirement, and my alarm happens just in time to grab my laptop and get on.