Hey. I was told having issues controlling anger or emotions in general can be related to ADHD. I know I get WAY angrier than anyone should ever be sometimes.
Especially when injustice and ignorance come my way. I get furious beyond anything I’ve ever seen or heard of anyone else talk about. Maybe aside from depictions of killers or berserkers in fiction. It’s not cool.
Only a few times have I gotten in trouble for it luckily and I never actually done anything more than shout the most disgusting insults at someone.
Now I do feel bad afterwards if I got angry at someone I like. But often enough I feel they fucking deserved it. If someone is an ignorant asshole willingly ruining someone’s day, week or life they deserve some ruin thrown back at them. I know this might not be a good and healthy thing to think. But if someone provokes someone don’t they ask to be yelled at?
I know they do this to ‘win the argument’ because of that imo idiotic notion that who yells first is wrong. But honestly I rarely care to be right enough for shit to matter.
I’ve read a few books on anger management and some techniques help a bit. But the amount of anger described in the book seems so very mild to me in comparison to what I experience and how fast it builds up. One book told me to count to three. I am ready to launch nukes before I reach 1. That won’t work.
And I don’t get angry at something. I have pure rage and fury, hatred and contempt for existence itself at those moments. Angry really doesn’t cut it. It’s scorched earth, blown it all up and piss on the ruins kind of anger.
So anyone else experience this? Any tips to deal with this shit?
I have never related to something more.
I hate the way that I hate.
I just can’t fathom how some people can be so oblivious and inconsiderate to others, sometimes to the point of danger.
I don’t have a remedy or fix apart from letting you know that you aren’t alone.
I like the way you phrased it too. Very good words for thing.
The inability to self-soothe and therefore outburst when you have emotions is an executive dysfunction that is definitely part of ADHD. As others have said, the degree to which you feel the emotions may have other components, but the inability to quell or redirect your emotions is definitely a normal ADHD symptom.
Ah right. Yeah it often takes all day for me to calm down. Or I can’t sleep because of it.
I’m pretty sure I’m also ADHD and I certainly also hate injustice and inaccuracy. (Jordan Peterson talking about IQ will basically send me into a rage.)
More to the point: anger, criticism, shame, fear – those emotions will have my chest tightening and my pulse racing.
Anyways, a piece of advice that I found once that was weirdly helpful (no idea where I found it) was a cardboard cutout metaphor. But I’ll be using a snake metaphor instead.
Get this, we have more than one brain.
We have a brain we share with lizards (that’s got our territoriality, our fear, and our anger). We have a whole layer of brain around the lizard one that we share with mammals (cuddling, protectiveness, affection, etc). And then we have the thinking, rational part of the brain. I think it’s called the cerebral cortex.
And part of what that last brain does is take in stimulae and interpret it. Only after this part of your brain interprets stimulae does the rest of your brain feel an emotional response.
The Snake Metaphor
The example given in the article was with cardboard cutouts of gang members. But I choose this:
Imagine you’re walking on a dirt path somewhere and you come across a piece of garden hose that looks vaguely like a snake. And you’re afraid of snakes.
You will either feel terror or nothing at all.
If you think it’s a snake, there willl be adrenaline and cortisol pumping through you.
If you realize it’s a piece of garden hose – even with the same exact visual and auditory stimulae – you will feel no fear.
Because your emotions are a slave to interpretation.
There’s a moment when you recognize, “oh, this person is willingly hurting someone.” You feel the rage only after that recognition.
I’m guessing, given your description of your quick rages, you will most likely NOT have time to apply this in the moment. So you’ll need to do it all in hindsight: reflect on individual incidents after they occur. Every time you calm down, try to reinterpret the situation and then add it to a databank of reinterpretations. Eventually, you’ll start to encounter scenarios you’ve already seen and added to your databank.
Reinterpret “this person is willingly hurting someone” until it becomes “this person is a wounded dog, biting everything who approaches without knowing or caring who it hurts or who is trying to help. It’s not cruelty; it’s pain.”
Reinterpret this:
Jordan Peterson claims that some people just have low IQ and “that’s a real problem. Society doesn’t really have a solution to the existence of these kinds of people. They just cost humanity resources and contribute nothing.”
until it becomes:
Jordan Peterson only advocates social darwinism because he’s a millionaire funded by billionaires. He doesn’t even advocate what he cares about. He’s a pathetic shill, desperately chasing money because wealth is the only substance in his life. No love, no hope, no aspirations. A wounded animal with tunnel vision, unable to be happy or form meaningful bonds with people.
And suddenly anger becomes pity.
And once you start looking for it, you’ll realize a rather profound truth,
Evil Never Emerges From a Vacuum.
I had an older brother who called me an, “outcast among outcasts” and that hurt me deeply until years later, when I found an old essay he wrote where he described his greatest insecurity. It was, word for word, “I felt like an outcast among outcasts.” The exact “insult” he had used on me.
Like a wounded animal lashing out.
I have a mother who’s deeply immersed in the intellectual dark web. (Hence me hearing Jordan Peterson enough to drive me crazy.) And I thought that was pretty cruel of her until I realized:
humans are scummy and greedy and anyone “advocating” for a better system just wants an excuse to greedily devour everyone else
… was a damn good description of her entire childhood! All of the adults. All of the people responsible for her. And she cannot look past that, because she formed her worldview in the years during which no figure in her life set aside their own self-interest to be kind to her.
And she needs people like Peterson who will tell her that an unchecked flood of human greed and selfishness is exactly what capitalism was built to endure and to harness.
In reality, most people are better than that, and she should have been treated better. And a bunch of teenagers stranded on an island for fifteen months treated each other better than anyone in her life ever treated her. And she can’t see that.
Like a wounded dog blinded by pain and rage.
Just the other day, my chest was actually constricting due to some random anonymous commenter getting mad at me. (Yes, that happens to us ADHD folks). And the ONLY thing that helped was when I realized, “the commenter also accused me of being a Fed at the end of his comment. Clearly he wasn’t angry at me. He was angry at an FBI agent he believed to be monitoring him and trying to mind-control him on behalf of the globalists or something.”
Yet another wounded animal lunging at every shadow he sees.
I don’t believe it’s possible to dampen an emotion. I certainly don’t think it’s possible for a neurodivergent to bring an emotion to neurotypical levels. After all, as an ADHDer, your hyperfocus will always amplify the shiniest thing in the room, and rage and shame and fear are always the shiniest thing in the room.
But you can cut them off at the source. You can choose to interpret the situation as one that does not call for an ounce of rage in the first place.
Firstly, we must recognize that our empathy and compassion are a privilege – we were loved at a crucial, formative time in our development. We were cuddled at a very specific age that allowed our brains to develop empathy. We were loved at enough pivotal moments that we believe kindness can be expected from people.
Which – at least for me – is impressive, because it was a traumatic upbringing that could have been a hell of a lot better. It’s impressive that such a childhood created someone “good.” But as twisted as our parents and relatives and role models may have treated us (I don’t know your story, but there sure is a lot of trauma in mine) we both still got enough affection to understand human connection, which is a form of happiness that exceeds all of the other forms of happiness combined. Ludicrous wealth? Being top dog? Preying on the weak? None of them come close.
Not everyone got what we got.
Have you heard the phrase, “hurt people hurt people” ?
Edit that. Change it to, “ONLY hurt people hurt people.” Turn it into a mantra: every time you’re upset, look for the hurt that causes the cruelty. I promise you, you will always find it. And when you do, your anger will abate, because you will recognize: it’s not cruelty. It’s pain.
Thank you for your well thought out comment!
What’s funny about Jordan Peterson is that while I rarely agree with him, he does not make me angry because I believe he argues in good faith. Imo he actually does believe what he says and I wouldn’t blame anyone for that. I came to that conclusion by watching quite a bit of his material and even reading his twelve rules book. So I believe my opinion is well-founded. But it definitely confirms your snake example in a way.
In general I don’t think I am quick to judge at all. That’s probably why after I get angry I will often regret the extent of my rage but rarely feel it was fully unjustified.
When it comes to looking for where it hurts, yeah, sure. Lies and people being deliberately unfair and reckless, selfish has hurt me in the past. And when it happens again I get angry as a defensive mechanism. I am fully aware. And other people do their shit because of what they have experienced. So far it has not helped me control it better to know that.
I know this might be a bit intrusive, but would you mind telling me a story (with some fake names) of a recent time that you got mad?
Something that sticks out to you.
And would you mind if I asked a number of follow-up questions about the story and the people you describe?
I’m going to take your non-answer for a “no.”
Which is acceptable. I didn’t mean to pressure you.
But I’m also going to try again to explain myself. Because I feel like I did a poor job.
And other people do their shit because of what they have experienced. So far it has not helped me control it better to know that.
I think I mislabeled my solution when I said, “look for the hurt.” Because upon reflection, it wasn’t finding the “hurt” that helped me.
It was finding the target. It helped when I convinced myself that the real target of the cruelty was not the person who ended up receiving it.
My brother in the above example? I was able to let go of his barbs when I realized his barbs were aimed at himself. He didn’t even really reflect on his own statements enough to know whether “outcast among outcasts” applied to me. He was insulting himself, and wound up missing himself and hitting me.
My mother in the above example – who currently embraces a bunch of people telling her, “some people are beyond saving,” – doesn’t actually understand that the resulting philosophy defends and maintains a system of oppression over minorities and poor people, (and over several categories to which she herself belongs.) And she wouldn’t be happy if she realized that. Because the real, true target of her desire to give up on people is the people who gave up on her. She’s just missing them and hitting the wrong people.
That commenter that somehow got my blood boiling? His target was an FBI or NSA agent, or any number of his “normie” friends who started to distance themselves from him after he entered the alt-right. He’s lonely. He’s isolated. And he’s lashing out against everyone trying to control and punish him by inflicting this loneliness upon him. And he ended up missing them and hitting me.
In all cases, these people were throwing darts after being spun around a few times, blindfolded. In all cases, they had a target that it might have been okay – or at least understandable – for them to hit. And realizing that they were missing their true target is what gives me peace.
Oh yes. Adhd, autism here, so severe over stimulation, impulse issues. Also. Grew up in abusive, violent childhood, where the only conflict resolution taught me was to yell, scream, throw things, lose it. Took me years of therapy to to try to overcome. These are what helped the most, some I do daily.
Dbt, cbt. Focusing on chatter in brain, learning to control it. Various centering, grounding exercises, including
Narrating my actions. Now I’m opening the door, now reaching into pocket…
Close eyes, focus on each of the 5 senses in turn.
Close eyes, just move, without thought, I do this a lot, it looks kinda like Tai chi.
I have a lot of mantras, including:
Let go of the anger, let go of the hate. Don’t become emotionally attached to an abuser. No assumptions, no expectations, no judgment. This is not all of me. Observe, describe, participate. I am both observer and observed.
I’ve learned anger can be useful. Helps recognize problem. Spurs to action. But it’s self sabotaging long term. I don’t like feeling out of control, consumed with hate. I don’t enjoy hurting ppl.
Becoming a violent, out of control abuser, to me, is embarrassing. It’s low class, uneducated, and I’m so much better than that. I try to learn from my mistakes, gain greater control over myself.
To be filled with hateful anger towards someone, that means they have power over me. It’s a form of intimacy, commitment, and why would I expose myself , become that intimate with someone I don’t like?
Ymmv.
I think explosive, sudden anger is pretty common in many folks regardless of ADHD. However, as you’ve noted, if you feel that there is such intense rage in you that you might be acting irrationally then I would strongly recommend speaking with a therapist.
Everyone experiences and communicates their emotions differently. A good therapist can help you analyze your emotions and work with you to determine why your reactions might be so explosive. It could be due to past trauma, present anxieties, neurodivergence such as ADHD, medication side effects, or any combination of these things. They may even find that you felt or acted in an entirely appropriate manner given the contexts and help assuage your guilt.
You talking about your situation, and for me, I call that my “flash point” where I “breathe fire”. I get to a point, after being pushed too much or too far that I breathe fire. That’s what I call it.
I can take only so much… and usually, in my life, I can take it for a while… course this all depends on other issues around me… kids, bills, finances, car troubles, job, stress, sleep, exhaustion etc. I also encourage you to talk with someone, you are not alone, and hope you find a way to tame the flame.
Side note though… imo standing up to injustice and assholes who are out there purposely causing misery to others and yourself through their misdeeds isn’t always a bad thing.
I’ve felt this way most of my life, especially the aspect of injustice.
I started with a new therapist recently, and he’s having me read Codependent No More. Turns out, chapter 1, every single thing they said rings true. So I’m 90% sure I am very Codependent.
One of the biggest ones that stood out to me was the term “righteous indignation” which is something I consider a core part of my identity…if you think about it though, the indignation is from knowing I’m right, and expecting other people to come along, and being furious when they don’t.
At the end of the day, anger is fine. Normal. Necessary. But the reason behind the anger is where you need to be careful.
If it isn’t actually directly impacting you, practice letting go. Abstracted anger is really hard to get rid of once you start figuring out justifications. Gotta find a way to short circuit the process, take a break to breathe, and revisit the situation without the anger and see what happens.
You may have rejection sensitive dysphoria.
Rejection sensitive dysphoria (RSD) is extreme emotional sensitivity and pain triggered by the perception that a person has been rejected or criticized by important people in their life. It may also be triggered by a sense of falling short—failing to meet their own high standards or others’ expectations.
When this emotional response is externalized, it looks like an impressive, instantaneous rage at the person or situation responsible for causing the pain.
The first medication mentioned as a possible treatment, guanfacine, changed my life to such a degree I did not think was possible.
I encourage you to read through the entire article and maybe discuss with your doctor on possible treatments if this sounds like what you experience.
While I do struggle with that a tiny bit still I have gotten so much better at dealing with my own expectations as well as criticism in general.
But also this is rarely what makes me angry if at all anymore. It’s more injustice, inconsideration causing harm or ignorance and malintent.
becomes an unskippable cutscene
I think I hate injustice. You know, a few months ago a lady kicked my dog because she thought he attacked her daughter – he didn’t. What happened was that my dog collided with the mother’s leg while playing with another dog (who dodged mine) in a public park (full of unleashed dogs running around, owners present). As a result, the mother’s leg pushed her daughter, and the mother’s immediate reaction was to kick my dog. I mean, I kinda want to understand, but I don’t, I really don’t. Anyways, I quickly confronted the mother face to face – who was distracted and missed what really happened, while I saw everything – and my peripheral vision went black and her face became blurry. I think I repeated the same phrase, “Why did you kick my dog?”, at least a dozen times while completely zoned out, full automaton style, for 10-15 seconds. I had never experienced anything like that before. I remember the woman whispered to me with a smile, “Hit me, come on, hit me if you’re so tough”. The fun part is that I’m quite muscular, so instead of empathizing with me and my dog, others threatened to call the police (what?) and wanted me to leave the place – a public space. I tried to explain that I wouldn’t harm her or anyone around (I’m generally a super chill person), I just wanted an explanation of why she acted violently when it was clear it was an accident, nobody was hurt, her daughter didn’t even move half a meter and remained unharmed. But in the end I decided to leave the place, still filled with anger, because nobody was willing to listen and everyone was looking at me like I was a caged animal about to snap. That shit ruined my week.
Yeah that is the dumb “whoever gets angry is wrong” mantra I meant. It’s an injustice in itself that is so absolutely stupid. It means if you hurt someone enough to make them angry, you win. What kind of behavior does that reward in society? Self-control by the person being provoked and being an absolute asshole by anyone wanting to “win” an argument.
That you’re going straight to nuclear at 1 is troubling. You may need to get some professional help for that.
Currently reading books while working in that part.
I mean they’re saying they go straight to nuclear, but they also say that they only ever shouted at people. I’ve unfortunately seen much stronger rage to the point where I would call shouting at people around “medium” anger.
You sound like me when I was young. I would easily explode for no reason and it felt like rage would burn me from inside. To be honest I never found a better way to deal with this other than simply getting older. At 48 I’m much more relaxed and don’t get that easily upset anymore. There are of course still things that annoy me but it’s by far not that intense anymore.
I experience all of my emotions as a flash in the pan. Anger, shock, fear, sadness, joy. All of them, very, very intensely, but only for a moment before I’m back to zero.
Idk friend, I’m angry all the time lol.
Only a few times have I gotten in trouble for it luckily and I never actually done anything more than shout the most disgusting insults at someone.
Honestly, that sounds pretty normal to me. I do see this behavior everywhere (people getting angry and shouting the most disgusting insults at someone). It seems like you do have some sense of control, since I’ve also seen anger get physical, throwing things, destroying things, attacking people, attacking themselves, which it doesn’t seem like you’re doing.
often enough I feel they fucking deserved it.
Anger has a purpose. It is meant to get you to do something about problematic things. If you actually do feel like they deserved it, and you actually only shouted at them, then this really does seem like the most normal thing in the world.
To me personally, it sounds more like you have some belief put into you that all anger is bad and you shouldn’t be angry ever. Then you control your anger all the time, keeping it bottled up, and then when something triggers a larger amount of anger, all the anger you bottled up over the last X amount of time gets compounded on top of the trigger for a truly strong rage.
I’m not a therapist. Like other people have already said, you should see one. I don’t know where you’re from, of course if you’re from the US this can be hard with money and all.
If you don’t mind me asking, if it is too private I understand, what’s your (rough) age and sex? What is and has been your parental situation? Have they not said anything about this/helped at all, or are you old enough that they’re out of the picture?
I get angry quite often so I don’t really feel it is bottled up. More like there is an infinite amount of it.
As for age and all basically they are out of the picture.
I feel like it’s also getting worse with age. Maybe I’m becoming more bitter and cynical as I experience life and the world around me.
And while I so far have always been able to not do more than yell. It has been close a few times.
I don’t think anger is bad. It shows you when something is wrong for you. But the intensity is too much almost all the time.
Sounds like an emotional dysregulation and impulse control thing. Both ADHD “features”.
I also get angry over injustice / unfairness but not furious just kind of angry. (Curious now if this is more common among ADHD folks). I don’t lose it.
What makes me really angry is frustration. And what makes me go ballistic is frustration with something I am doing not going well (especially wrenching on a car) to the point where it feels like the universe is just trying to humiliate me. That’s what ends up with me screaming and throwing things. Not good. Really not good. I have come to recognize when I am having one of those days and quit long before it gets to that point.
My dad (not diagnosed but c’mon) had a really scary temper at least to kid me. Oof. Getting more angry than normal is not great for people around you. Realizing I was turning into my dad with anger, and having a kid, I didn’t want her to be terrified of me. So I’ve taking various steps.
As for people deserving being yelled at… Idk. I would caution against it. How do you know it is proportional given emotional dysregulation and impulse control issues we tend to suffer?
Is yelling really productive? More than storming off and then discussing later when more calm?
Also, if your friends are being assholes to the point where a reasonable person would be compelled to yell at them… Maybe they are just shitty people and not great friend material. Otherwise maybe you’re overreacting. I have no idea.
Best wishes. This aspect (among others) is damn curse.
