This is a community for conservatism. Every other conservative space in the Fediverse has devolved into extremism or bigotry. This will NOT be tole…

conservatism@piefed.social

This is a community for conservatism. Every other conservative space in the Fediverse has devolved into extremism or bigotry. This will NOT be tolerated. The rules are as such:

  1. No racism or ethnosupremacism.
  2. No antisemitism (including dogwhistles or using right or left politics to deny it).
  3. No misogyny (such as saying women should not vote).
  4. No queer-hatred (disagreeing with their lifestyle is not a blank cheque for vitriol or exclusion).
  5. No ableism.
  6. No ageism.
  7. No slurs.
  8. No extremism.
  9. No personal attacks or strawmen on others (ad-hominens). ARGUE IN GOOD FAITH!
  10. No spam.
  11. No flood.
  12. No trying to find loopholes in the rules.
  13. Moderator and the host instance has the final say. Follow the Terms of Service of PieFed and, even if you may disagree with them, the broader Fediverse as a whole.

Edited for accuracy.

  • T00l_shed@lemmy.worldEnglish
    203·
    1 day ago

    that advances positive ideas.

    Sorry but conservative ain’t about positive ideas

    • InfernoWarrior@piefed.socialOPEnglish
      110·
      22 hours ago

      It can be. For example, I am for conserving things such as the world we live in, conserving fair competition, conserving justice, and conserving traditional values. Do not pollute, do not allow monopolies to form, do not ruin justice, do not be so rigid in tradition we that we refuse to change even harmful ‘traditions’, and do not destroy the world we all live in for this and our next lives. It is just many uses it as an excuse for vitriol.

      Edited to fix spelling error.

      • T00l_shed@lemmy.worldEnglish
        121·
        1 day ago

        world we live in

        It’s that really something you want to conserve?

        conserving justice

        Justice around the world needs to be reformed.

        conserving traditional values.

        What traditional values? That is a dog whistle for no gay marriage, women in the kitchen,

        Do not pollute, do not allow monopolies to form, do not ruin justic.

        Those are not conservative policies policies

        do not be so rigid in tradition we that we refuse to change even harmful ‘traditions’,

        Genuinely curious as to what you mean by that?

        and do not destroy the world we all live in for this and our next lives.

        That is not conservative policy either

        • InfernoWarrior@piefed.socialOPEnglish
          14·
          22 hours ago
          1. Yes. The Earth should not be ruined.
          2. I agree justice needs to be preserved, but I mean the principle of justice. Not the current justice system. Fair and speedy trials with the assumption of innocence until proven guilty.
          3. How? Tradition does not mean no gay marriage or women in the kitchen. That is backwards thinking and throughout history, many cultures had different traditions. Mine did not treat women like that, so…
          4. I mean, it is if you look at figures like Theodore Roosevelt. He was big on antitrust and conservationalism!
          5. Slavery and Nazism were some of the most evil things in the world and those were kept in the name of ‘tradition’. Some things need to change. It is good those are gone.
          6. Kinda is if you follow the orders of Him and shepherd His world. He never said to destroy it… He actually said the opposite.

          Edited to add 6.

          • T00l_shed@lemmy.worldEnglish
            21·
            14 hours ago

            You say you want a bunch of good stuff, but then you align yourself with a movement that doesn’t. That is pure cognitive dissonance

          • one_old_coder@piefed.socialEnglish
            61·
            24 hours ago

            Tradition does not mean no gay marriage or women in the kitchen

            But you said:

            being a shepherd of this world instead of destroying His creation

            You want a theocracy, and that’s what you would get. You should be more honest about it.

        • InfernoWarrior@piefed.socialOPEnglish
          18·
          22 hours ago

          The institutional traditions of being a shepherd of this world instead of destroying His creation and uphold justice. That and religion. Regardless, we all live here and if we mess up this world with pollutants, destroy ecosystems, or smash justice as if it means nothing at all… I shudder to think what would happen. We already have caused unfathomable damage by deforestation, throwing mercury in the water that poisons the fish, and hunting entire species to extinction en masse.

          Edited to say the damage done to the environment.

      • SGforce@lemmy.caEnglish
        9·
        1 day ago

        I think you’ve confused “conservationism” with “conservatism”.

        • InfernoWarrior@piefed.socialOPEnglish
          23·
          22 hours ago

          No. I am a conservationalist AND a conservative. Conservationalism can be a part of conservatism, which means to conserve. The principle is simple: We cannot use the land if we destroy the land and He commanded us to shepherd His world, not destroy it.

          Edited because I said conservationalism twice… lol.

          • CrocodilloBombardino@piefed.socialEnglish
            4·
            22 hours ago

            Hey, good faith reply here. Conservatism doesn’t simply mean “to conserve”: it has different, specific political meanings depending on what country or political system you’re referring to. Not only that, but plenty of political movements use labels that are more about sounding good than a truly accurate description of what they are. For example, Murray Rothbard deliberately stole the term “libertarian” (for American right-wing “libertarians”) from its original connection to anarchism and libertarian socialism.

            Also can you clarify your point about “traditional values”? As you said, different cultures and different time periods have had different traditions, so which ones are we conserving? If the answer is “any or all of them”, then isn’t that the same as “do whatever you like”? If the answer is a specific set of values, why those? That’s not meant to be a gotcha, I’m legit interested in where you’re coming from.

            Thank you for explicitly banning nazis, fascists, and similar groups, along with other forms of bigotry. They are a plague on us all and have no place in any political camp.

            • InfernoWarrior@piefed.socialOPEnglish
              1·
              13 hours ago
              1. Of course! Conservatism is usually a way of life, but there is ideological conservatism too that varies quite a lot.
              2. It is a bit more complicated. It means to conserve the ways that your peoples historically had, not a specific universal way.
              3. Of course. Hate is never welcome.
              • CrocodilloBombardino@piefed.socialEnglish
                2·
                12 hours ago

                It means to conserve the ways that your peoples historically had, not a specific universal way.

                So then everyone is essentially trapped in the traditions of the family they were born into? The details here can be complicated: Do children of blended families get to choose from among the cultures of their parents, or what about children in group homes or foster care? Should we not have the freedom to replace or modify the traditions we don’t find meaningful, assuming we are not harming anyone else?

                I grew up with a sense of resentment towards traditions i grew up with because they were done in a rote, check-the-box way. i saw no meaning in them. maybe a version more relevant to modern times would have given me more to appreciate.

                • InfernoWarrior@piefed.socialOPEnglish
                  1·
                  12 hours ago
                  1. No. Nobody is stuck in the traditions they were born into. And mixed couples likely have different traditions and that is fine. The child would have something called culturalgenesis. The combination of both the ways of their parents into a different way. In group homes or foster care, it is up to you to choose what you want to do. And of course we should have the freedom to modify our traditions. Slavery and Nazism were once ‘traditions’ and those were some of the worst evils known to man. Sometimes tradition needs to change. As for traditions one may no longer find valuable, it is useful to separate the reason for a tradition from the actual practice itself. You can apply the reason for it to many different things, even if you abandon the actual practice because you no longer believe in it. It is your perogative to change your mind or dislike something.
                  2. Traditions need to be adapted to the modern times. The world has changed. We cannot be as we were in the past. It is about keeping the reason for the tradition intact and basing things on that, not neccessarily about an exact practice.
                  • CrocodilloBombardino@piefed.socialEnglish
                    1·
                    2 hours ago

                    hm. so im hearing that you’re in favor of freedom to engage with, change, or not engage with traditions. This is the same position as is held by people who call themselves liberals and especially leftists of various types.

                    you are religious, but so are people all across the political spectrum, so that doesn’t require conservatism on its own. you also don’t seem to push your religion on anyone else.

                    you are clearly worried about the planet and ecology but don’t tie it to a specific ethnic group, like when the right takes it up as an excuse to exclude others (e.g. Malthusian perspectives, ecofascism). an earnestly ecological outlook I’ve seen mostly in the center and on the left.

                    I think your positions make you more of a leftist. maybe you’ve been shown the left or individual leftists in a bad light… that happens a lot in media. or maybe you live in a former Soviet bloc country, which makes the left in general and “socialism” especially look bad (though I’d argue the ussr wasn’t doing socialism).

                    if you’re curious at all, I’d be glad to give you some materials on leftist positions as they actually are and not as they are portrayed by the right and the center.