Anything that transmits a signal can be found, just get that out of the way immediately. The only way to be 100% untraceable is to never transmit.
Mesh networks, however, are pretty safe. Triangulating the origin of a mesh transmission will just lead to the repeater node which, admittedly is a pain in the dick if they kill the repeater and the network goes dark, but it doesn’t lead directly back to a person, just a box they stuck on a cell tower or up on a hill somewhere.
Meshtastic is still radio just the same. It is a transmitter and will get triangulated, but that is irrelevant to what I said. What I am talking about is how all radio devices you actually use are easily logged. Cell towers are one way, but the device is easy to log more locally. For instance most big retail stores are logging people in the door and their movements. Heck, it has been a few years since the papers about how people can be tracked based on changes and response times within WiFi coverage using standard consumer hardware. It would not surprise me if this is used by some now. The air tags nonsense, that is the same type of thing. The real reason you do not have removable batteries in mobile devices is so that you cannot turn them off. They are never fully off. That is how stuff like air tags still work. Stuff like Intel’s ME, AMD’s PSP, and ARM’s TrustZone are the systems that are used. It is a whole extra operating system running in the background on your hardware. These have a lower root level access to everything on your hardware. It is trivial to log signals from all mobile devices that pass a given point. It may still require some coordination to correlate cellular and video manually but I highly doubt that. In all likelihood, the current generation of hardware is already collecting this data. Look at all the stories of people getting caught a few days after crimes. That was unheard of 2 decades ago. Now it is practically a given. If you are in public and transmitting radio signals now, you are fucked. We would all need to dress up as Tusken Raiders to have any chance at anonymity now.
I do agree that radio triangulation does happen and this is happening with cell phone all the time. My GrapheneOS phone pretty much stays in airplane mode most of the time.
I know very little about Meshtastic but a one thing seem fairly obvious:
Meshtastic is unlicensed, therefore operates outside the frequency range of commercial equipment such as cellphones. Cell towers can’t be used to triangulate a frequency they aren’t designed to detect.
I have no doubt that Iran’s military has the gear to detect and triangulate Meshtastic.
Anyone can detect any transmitted radio signals. The ARRL books explain how. I’m too lazy to go look at my copy to photograph the section of the physical book in my room. The frequency licensing is totally irrelevant here. That will just be changed and noise will get broadcast over the band. If you keep trying to transmit, someone will find you. You are literally creating a beacon in all directions that points at you. Everyone will be listening, but one by one there will be no one to listen to. This is standard stuff. Every military unit has radio counter measures. You are very limited in real output power already. The big boys will blow you away because they have no such restrictions. It is one of the reasons why there are power limits. Now if you can hide something useful and encrypted near the noise floor, that is one real possibility, but in this age of software defined radio, you are still going to get caught.
You refuse to explain your claim that cell tower can be used to triangulate Meshtastic radios. I’m out. Not wasting any more of my day on this conversation that isn’t going anywhere.
All radios anywhere have this weakness, including the little radios in all your wifi-enabled devices. If they are shutting down meshtastic they are also shutting down all the local networks.
Radio is trivial to triangulate the broadcaster if someone tries. You can receive anything, but not transmit. If you have line of sight, lasers can be focused to some extent to limit scatter.
One of the biggest changes in Ukraine has been attaching a very thin fiberoptic wire to drones for their connection up to a few miles away. That is evidence of what is truly required and pragmatic. So, start running similar lines if you really care and can come up with a way of hiding them. The only real option is to go dark in practice. There is no way to stop from being forced into becoming a slave in all but name.
Okay so the thing is, how do you hide the origin of the signals?
Cuz triangulation…
I heard that supposedly Iran sent police to go door to door and confiscate Starlink satalite dishes, so… like…
Which is why the keyword “communicate safely”
Seems like all civillian radios have this same weakness.
Anything that transmits a signal can be found, just get that out of the way immediately. The only way to be 100% untraceable is to never transmit.
Mesh networks, however, are pretty safe. Triangulating the origin of a mesh transmission will just lead to the repeater node which, admittedly is a pain in the dick if they kill the repeater and the network goes dark, but it doesn’t lead directly back to a person, just a box they stuck on a cell tower or up on a hill somewhere.
Keep mobile while online. Make sure to turn off the transceiver long before getting home.
Not now with Flock like bullshit. You can count on that data getting triangulated with cell service signals.
Meshtastic works via cell towers?
Meshtastic is still radio just the same. It is a transmitter and will get triangulated, but that is irrelevant to what I said. What I am talking about is how all radio devices you actually use are easily logged. Cell towers are one way, but the device is easy to log more locally. For instance most big retail stores are logging people in the door and their movements. Heck, it has been a few years since the papers about how people can be tracked based on changes and response times within WiFi coverage using standard consumer hardware. It would not surprise me if this is used by some now. The air tags nonsense, that is the same type of thing. The real reason you do not have removable batteries in mobile devices is so that you cannot turn them off. They are never fully off. That is how stuff like air tags still work. Stuff like Intel’s ME, AMD’s PSP, and ARM’s TrustZone are the systems that are used. It is a whole extra operating system running in the background on your hardware. These have a lower root level access to everything on your hardware. It is trivial to log signals from all mobile devices that pass a given point. It may still require some coordination to correlate cellular and video manually but I highly doubt that. In all likelihood, the current generation of hardware is already collecting this data. Look at all the stories of people getting caught a few days after crimes. That was unheard of 2 decades ago. Now it is practically a given. If you are in public and transmitting radio signals now, you are fucked. We would all need to dress up as Tusken Raiders to have any chance at anonymity now.
I do agree that radio triangulation does happen and this is happening with cell phone all the time. My GrapheneOS phone pretty much stays in airplane mode most of the time.
I know very little about Meshtastic but a one thing seem fairly obvious:
Meshtastic is unlicensed, therefore operates outside the frequency range of commercial equipment such as cellphones. Cell towers can’t be used to triangulate a frequency they aren’t designed to detect.
I have no doubt that Iran’s military has the gear to detect and triangulate Meshtastic.
Anyone can detect any transmitted radio signals. The ARRL books explain how. I’m too lazy to go look at my copy to photograph the section of the physical book in my room. The frequency licensing is totally irrelevant here. That will just be changed and noise will get broadcast over the band. If you keep trying to transmit, someone will find you. You are literally creating a beacon in all directions that points at you. Everyone will be listening, but one by one there will be no one to listen to. This is standard stuff. Every military unit has radio counter measures. You are very limited in real output power already. The big boys will blow you away because they have no such restrictions. It is one of the reasons why there are power limits. Now if you can hide something useful and encrypted near the noise floor, that is one real possibility, but in this age of software defined radio, you are still going to get caught.
You refuse to explain your claim that cell tower can be used to triangulate Meshtastic radios. I’m out. Not wasting any more of my day on this conversation that isn’t going anywhere.
It does not.
I didn’t think so.
All radios anywhere have this weakness, including the little radios in all your wifi-enabled devices. If they are shutting down meshtastic they are also shutting down all the local networks.
Radio is trivial to triangulate the broadcaster if someone tries. You can receive anything, but not transmit. If you have line of sight, lasers can be focused to some extent to limit scatter.
One of the biggest changes in Ukraine has been attaching a very thin fiberoptic wire to drones for their connection up to a few miles away. That is evidence of what is truly required and pragmatic. So, start running similar lines if you really care and can come up with a way of hiding them. The only real option is to go dark in practice. There is no way to stop from being forced into becoming a slave in all but name.