Please note that this is my experience and my opinion and mine only. Yours might differ and I’m glad about it because it means that this product reached its intended target

TL;DR: The FW16 is a better computer, but the FW13 is a better laptop

Long read:
I’ve had a FrameWork 16 for over a year and a half now. I’ve preordered it as soon as I was aware it existed. I lived it as a computer.
It’s the most incredible laptop I’ve ever seen. Want a numpad? Want no numpad? Want a discrete GPU? Want 16 or 96Gb of RAM? Want one, two, four SSDs? Want six modular ports? First party Linux support? They got you covered.
However, I’ve grown dissatisfied of this laptop pretty quickly despite wanting to love it so much. I love the modular concept, I love the idea of it, but I ended up not using it, at all. I don’t want a numpad, I don’t need or want several SSDs or a dGPU. And most of all, I find it highly impractical.

It’s so massive. I’ve never had a gaming laptop, only thin an light laptops (for their respective eras). It’s too large to comfortably fit in most laptop backpacks, too heavy and pointy to comfortably lug around all day. Even if the modular plates around the keyboard and trackpad are well made and in reality as solid as you would reasonably expect for a touchable surface, slights imperfections can make it uncomfortable when used as a laptop and give a (false) impression of flimsiness. I ended up keeping it docked most of the time, which defeats the purpose of a laptop.

The raw CPU power is very nice, and the large case and multiple fans insure good thermals. But if I need massive raw power at my desk, I have my gaming PC.

The screen is huge and comfortable and super smooth, but as it’s docked, it just becomes a larger than average secondary screen.

The 6 expansion ports are great because that’s enough to have most ports basically permanently fixed on the laptop, without having to swap depending on use cases. Yet, being docked to a KVM, I have enough external ports already.

The battery is huge, but yet again, you guessed it, docked, no use, still the same pattern.

Therefore I decided that, as great as it is, the Framework 16 was not for me. It doesn’t fit my use case.

And that’s why I “downgraded” to the Laptop 13. After a few hours playing with it, I much prefer it as a laptop. It’s almost half the weight, fits basically anywhere, its rounded edges and unibody top cover are much more comfortable. It feels more… refined. Like a MacBook Pro from 10-15 years ago (before they became shit with their super slim, uncomfortable and unrepairable keyboards). Being their fisrt and most developed platform, most hardware updates hit the 13 before anything else.

Of course, it’s much more limited. The 4 expansion slots are nearly not enough for me but I would only need to swap on the go. Thermals are much more constrained and the CPU less powerful (I went with the 7x40u because the AI300 series don’t seem Linux-ready yet). The screen is obviously much smaller. It’s not nearly as modular. The battery is 20%-ish smaller.

And I don’t care. This is the laptop I wanted all along. A slim, lightweight, repairable, upgradeable laptop I can throw in a bag, dock in my “home office”, bring along on the couch, in bed, on vacation or on the weekends.

Anyway. Thanks FrameWork for the choice, for the opportunity and the amazing products you’re making!

  • ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    6 days ago

    It’s so massive. I’ve never had a gaming laptop, only thin an light laptops (for their respective eras).

    I had a Dell Inspiron in ~2004 that was worse in every way imaginable (made me swear off Dell forever) and was twice as thick as the Framework 16, with bit smaller screen, and heavier by far, and my point is I had to carry that in a bog standard messenger bag 15 miles in the snow uphill both ways every day and you kids today are spoiled with your macbook airs and get the hell off my lawn!

    Honestly I mostly use it at home and if I travel with it I walk it to the car and then from the car into wherever, and back again. In a bog standard messenger bag no less. If you need portability first and foremost, on the go NYC jetsetter riding the rails or whatever, yeah, get the more portable one lol, duh! I had to make my old man joke though, despite completely agreeing with you haha.

    • WFH@lemmy.zipOP
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      6 days ago

      My first laptop was a PowerBook G4. I think I qualify as an old man 😅

  • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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    7 days ago

    First party Linux support?

    what does this mean?

    my last few purchases came from linux-only vendors because i learned the expensive & hard way that slapping a linux distro on a laptop intended for windows gets you dramatically inferior performance from things like the battery life.

    buying hardware intended for linux or open source (eg coreboot, libreboot, open firmware, etc.) leads to a night-and-day experience compared to windows-focused systems and i was always under impression that frameworks only sold window-focused hardware but with a bigger price tag.

    • WFH@lemmy.zipOP
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      6 days ago

      They have a dedicated Linux support team, who also regularly chime in in the community forums.

      They provide firmware and BIOS updates directly via LVFS.

      They choose Linux-compatible components for usually unsupported peripherals like fingerprint readers. All hardware works OOTB (at least with Fedora).

      They provide detailed instructions on how to setup two of the most popular distros, and the DIY editions are sold without an OS and they explicitly approve Linux installs :

      Q: Can I install Linux? A: Yes! We have official support for Ubuntu LTS and Fedora, along with installation guides and community support for additional distros.

      The BIOS is unfortunately closed source (I think I recall majors pains with Coreboot with early generation Intel laptops that lead them to shelve it), but works OOTB.

      What they do not sell is an option for preinstalling Linux, unlike S76 or Tuxedo. But honestly, who cares? Linux users are opinionated enough to stick a USB installer of their favorite distro before first boot anyway.

      BTW performance and battery life are great. My 16 used to idle at around 9W in balanced mode and native resolution, my 13 is currently idling at 6W despite using 150% fractional scaling and balanced mode.

      • eldavi@lemmy.ml
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        6 days ago

        thanks for the great response.

        the battery life with coreboot is the one thing that keeps me away from framework; but honestly i would jump ship if framework could sweeten the pot a little bit like by offering macbook-like quality speakers and/or a display that’s just as bright that i enjoy on my work laptops

        What they do not sell is an option for preinstalling Linux, unlike S76 or Tuxedo.

        does this mean that they come with windows pre-installed? if so, is it an oem license? does it cost more than nothing pre-installed (assuming that’s an option).

        • WFH@lemmy.zipOP
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          6 days ago

          You’re welcome :)

          If you choose the prebuilt options I think you’re stuck with preinstalled windows.

          If you choose the DIY edition (which is exactly the same except you have to install the RAM and SSD sticks yourself), you can choose between no OS or paying extra for windows.

          I’m pretty sure they’re too small to get caught up in the volume-licencing/monopoly scam Microsoft runs on the big guys because their licences seem very expensive.

  • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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    6 days ago

    Agreed. I have a desktop for power, my fw13 is basically just a thin client. And it’s still very capable.

    • kontrollierterWahnwitz@sueden.social
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      7 days ago

      @hackerwacker @Wfh

      „This is the laptop I wanted all along. A slim, lightweight, repairable, upgradeable laptop I can throw in a bag, dock in my “home office”, bring along on the couch, in bed, on vacation or on the weekends.“

      Wild guess: Because a mini PC is not a laptop?

  • Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 days ago

    I have a 13. My father in law just bought a 16. So I’ve got good runtime on both. He uses the 16 AS a powerful desktop - one that can be easily disconnected and taken on the go. The 16 fills that use case perfectly.

    But if you already have a powerful desktop - the 13 makes SO much more sense.

    • naeap@sopuli.xyz
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      7 days ago

      Depends on the use case

      I’m often developing on site and just the bigger display is a win in itself.

      But I’m using it as a portable desktop - although I run around in warehouses with it…

      • Kongar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        7 days ago

        Yup

        Once upon a time, seeing the high resolution on a 13 inch display would have been no problem. Now, the 16 is definitely nicer for that. :)

  • MystValkyrie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    7 days ago

    I might just be weird, but I feel like I’m the only person who wants a dGPU slot in a 13-inch laptop. The 16 is just too big, even for gaming.

    The 13 isn’t powerful enough for high-end gaming and the 16 is impractically large.